I was wondering what would be the best mild all motor cam for my car to start out with and found some interesting info from Crower.com:

Stock Specs from H22 Type SH Int-275 Exh-275 Int-.448 Exh-.415
Stock Specs from H22 JDM-spec Int-271 Exh-277 Int-.446 Exh-.415

Crower Cams:
63420 Stock replacement/Turbo, factory spring OK for street with stock rev limit. Int-275 Exh-270 Int-.450 Exh-.417
63421 Stage 1 - Street Use (12-15 hp)/Turbo Race. Factory spring OK for street with stock rev limit. Int-282 Exh-279 Int-.457 Exh-.426
63421T Stage 2 - Turbo special design. Short duration = low overlap, high lift for increased performance. Spring/Reta63421t iner Kit #68184 required. Int-280 Exh-276 Int-.465 Exh-.445
63422 Stage 2 - Road/Rally & Street/Strip (15-18 hp). Recommend Crower spring/retainer kit. Int-297 Exh-287 Int-.466 Exh-.465
63422A Features #63422 Stage 2 VTEC lobe with stock idle lobes for improved street performance. Recommend spring/retainer kit, but only above stock rev limit. Int-297 Exh-287 Int-.466 Exh-.465
63423 Stage 3 - All-motor Drag profile (22+ hp w/other mods). Most aggressive ramp speeds on the market. Int-295 Exh-297 Int-.472 Exh-.466

And this from Skunk2:
H22A 2.2L DOHC VTEC
Stage I IN. 0.475, 255 EX. 0.436, 255
Stage II IN. 0.505, 270 EX. 0.465, 275

Doesn't look like the USDM Type-SH are that much better than the JDM H22A and the JDM H22A look better than the Skunk2 stage 1 and maybe even better than the stage 2! Crower looks the way to go between the two, but who else makes a good cam and has specs available? What do you guys think?

 

There are so many ways to make power from cams...

Duration, lift, combination of both etc...

They all depend on your setup too. If you have a fully stock setup, you won't gain much. Stick with some mild cams, and be happy with 8-12 hp gains and go about your busniess with a reliable car.

If you have an all out setup with retarded compression, and everything flows like the mississippi river, then really whacked out cams are your friend... what do you care that you get 8 mpg, you have a race car.

There is no "one best" N/A camshaft/set of camshafts. It all depends on what you want.

 

So how does different pistons come into the picture. Are high compression pistons needed when you change your cams?

 

no, they aren't needed... if you stay reasonable.

But if you run huge, massive lift cams on stock compression, you're probably gonna actually lose HP. You're flowing too much stuff. You're upsetting the fine balance that everything on our small motors need to run correctly.

Our cars are much different from V8's. With a V8 you just ***** stuff out on the heads, run big *** exhausts, a huge cam, and wham... you have a fast car. LOL... try boring out a Honda head without a flow bench and you're gonna regret it.

Higher compression, and better flow are needed to utilize cam lift and duration if you start getting into the "Crower stage 3" area. If you shoved stage 3 cams in a stock motor, you probably wouldn't be that happy.... in fact, I can almost promise that you'd be pissed off.

The more that you've done to your motor, the more HP you're gonna see out of a set of cams. The higher compression, and the more flow that you have, the higher the lift, and the longer the duration you can run.

 

i understand the fact of picking the right cam for what you have done and not going to big. i was just showing that it looks like the jdm cams that i have now are better than the skunk2's.

but... that you mention it. if i was just going to do i,h,e,regulator,vafc,cam gears,skunk2 im, and maybe chave the head a little, what would be best as far as duration and lift? around 280 deg and .450 lift?

 

Skunk2's cams appear to have less duration than even stock cams, but much higher lift. Crower on the other hand increases duration a good amount and doesn't go wild on lift.

There is little hard evidence available as to which will produce larger gains on a relatively stock H22 motor, going with big lift increases or duration. I think Crower's cams would produce larger gains than Skunk2's when used in less than "all-out" setups. I do think Skunk2's stage 2 profile would be excellent in a high-compression highly modified engine because of the crazy lift and you can fine tune duration to a point with cam gears.

 

Can someone explain the main effect of duration on the power production? I have Crower Stage 3 and I'm just trying to determine if they are right for what I'm doing....

 

Rough explanation:
duration = the amount of time the valves are open
lift = the height that they open

Both of those affect the amount of air and fuel that are allowed into the combustion chamber. Longer duration and lower lift can produce the same kinds of effects as less duration and higher lift. It's all about the amount of air/fuel that gets let in.

Crower stage 3's should require higher compression since they have such amazing lift.

 

May sound novice but when you say "flow like the mississippi" do you mean good breathing characteristics. (i.e. I/H/E)

 

You mean duration
The Skunk2 stage 2 has CRAZY lift, but short duration. The Crower 3's have very long duration but not the same kinda lift the Skunk2 2's have.

The way I see it...very high lift will take rather high rpm to become efficient. Longer duration and less lift doesn't make power as high in the rpm band and can effectively make better mid-range as well.

 

it's a give and take situation.

My cams from WebCam had hella duration, but not quite as much lift. I will go ahead and tell you that they were inSANE. MPG? HA! Funny concept.

Anyway, I think you should consult with each camshaft manufacturer that you plan on buying from about your setup and ask them about it. They won't steer you wrong because to them, if you don't make more HP, then they get bad reviews.

 

you have to look at how the cams are measured.... normall stock cam duration is total duration, with skunks and crower they measure duration at 0.050inch of lift. that means that they dont start measureing the duration untill the valve is open 0.050 inch

2 cams that say 275 deg of duration could be extremely different

i would stay away from crower, i cant tell you the number of people i know that have had motors destroyed by either their cams or their valve springs breaking


[Modified by Furry, 4:27 AM 2/3/2003]

 

Yeah I knew the definitions

Hmm so how high? I was running 11.5:1 should it have been higher?

 

11.5:1 is definately high enough to make good power from Crower Stage 3's. Todd's custom cams were probably tailored for his compression though, you had 13:1 or was it 12.x:1? And I know he always added some race gas to his tank to run that beast

 

So while we're on the subject, has anyone tried the crower stage 2 turbo cams? I'm wondering if these would be a worthwhile investment for the motor I'm going to build.....
Brian

 

Here's my .02 on cams - You really cannot pick 'the right' cam w/o doing some flow research on your head. I have not done this, and I don't know what the flow #s are on a stock H22 head, but the reason that this is important is that depending on the porting/flow, you may not gain anything from raising the lift of a cam past a certain point, and this is likely a different point on intake and exhaust. If you are flowing say 300 cfm at .400 lift, 350 cfm at .450 lift, 350 cfm at .500 lift and 350 cfm at .550 lift, it makes no sense to put a cam in the car w/ greater than a .450 lift. Without working the ports to take advantage of the additional lift, you are just wasting it. When you have worked out the optimal flow/lift, then you start monkeying around w/ duration. I'm sure Todd can fill you in on the joys of long-duration cams on such things as fuel economy, idle, operation of any accessories requiring engine vaccum. Now, all this said, sometimes to get the duration you need, you are forced to take more lift.

Has anyone here had a stock H22 head flowed to determine how big a cam it can use?

Paul

 

I really doubt it. I guess the best thing we could do is ask Crower, Skunk2, or even professional engine builders that have done NA H22's before their reasoning for the designs they use.

 

 

The driveability and mpg should not be affected that much if its only the vtec lobes that are agressive no?

 

That is true for the most part, but a good amount of that will always come into the tune, and any other modifications that are done to take full advantage of the cams.

Being that this thread is 17 years old, there have been many changes in the cams available, and what people have done to take proper advantage of them.