Well, the fact that I am asking this question in H-T goes to show I think very highly of this forum. I'm sure you guys will provide some sensible answers.

First, a quick background: I got my ITR in Jan '01. I started tracking it only 3 months later and have probably been to the track over 20 times over the last 2 years. The car has 17,000 miles and is in superb shape. Recently, the clutch was replaced under warranty, and a full inspection was performed at a reputable race shop. It's in perfect condition, they were quite surprised when I told 'em it's been tracked as much. I am pretty sure that I could get at least $19K for it if I sold it.

Since I have a daily driver, the ITR is going to be a track-only car from now on. With all my enthusiasm last year, I bought a Sparco EVO II racing seat, 5pt harness, and a Kirk Rollbar, to be installed over the winter. But, I am now having second thoughts about doing this. The theft issue aside, the ITR, despite its superb performance, regularly gets beaten on the track by M3s and 911s, when comparable drivers (to me) are behind the wheel. I am good enough that I can beat medium drivers, but basically, I want more power/torque, while maintaining the handling and cornering. And you can't go wrong with RWD.

It seems like the E36 M3 would be a very good choice, and an upgrade. It's probably the most tracked car in America. And from all I hear, it's reliable and you can get a decent one for under $30K these days.

So, what do you suggest? As a track-car only, with very occasional street driving, should I get an M3, or stick with the ITR?

[sorry for the long post]


[Modified by fso_BamBam, 11:18 PM 1/24/2003]

 

Every day pushes me closer to saying, "get an E36 M3."

First of all, you've said it yourself; the E36 M3s are beating you on the track. Performance is not an issue in question here.

Furthermore, the E36 M3 is a delightful car to drive. The chassis is well-balanced and responsive, and the flexibility of that inline six is very nice. It's not quite as light on its feet as an R, but it is no slouch either.

Theft is also much less of a problem with those cars. And the simple fact that it isn't Japanese makes it attractive in my book.

E36 M3 =


[Modified by MK Ultra, 5:27 PM 1/24/2003]

 

The ITR will do quite well for its $19K or so value. If you want to spend a little money to trade up, you can get a nice early NSX for the low thirties (or a higher mileage one for under thirty) and it will trounce the ITR as well as the E36 M3.

 

If you have more than enough $$$ to cover all equipment necessary to track an E36 M3, then go for it. Cost of parts for M3 could add very quick, making it more expensive to track those cars!

 

i have an R and my brother has an E36M3. both are great cars. he got a 97 M3 with 30k miles for $22grand. it is an AWESOME car !! for the price, simply unbeatable. he does many driving events and all he changes is pads, fluid and tires. no problems at all. fun, fast, luxurious., what more could one want?? (maybe the sublime feel of an R underfoot??)

 

Pros: RWD, Chicks dig it, 5 steps up social status, comfy street rides.
Cons: Expensive in tunning and performance maintanance.

ITR is exactly the opposite of the above.

You heard that M3s are reliable and I heard not. They often said that there are lots of little annoying electronic bugs and just for this reason, I would rather stick with a more mechanical oriented car like my ITR.


EDIT: Besides, you spend all that $$$ on cage/harness...etc and all you got performance wise is a K&N Filter???!!??!! 168whp is weak sauce.
At your level of the game, I think power/brake/suspension upgrades should be your priority in taking over those M3s on the track.
You probably need another 5-6k to get a higher milaged M3 if you sale your ITR. With that money, you can prepare your ITR to be a M3-eater. (Unless they are SCed.)

RWD or FWD or 4WD, you still need to follow the apex...so don't emphasis on it too much, you are not participating in drifting contests.


[Modified by nEoMuGen, 7:02 PM 1/24/2003]

 

Good points, the cost of tracking is an issue though. As Cosworth mentions, if that stuff starts to add up, then that would be problematic, of course, since tracking is expensive as it is. But if all I have to do is change fluids, pads, and tires, like I've been doing with my ITR, then we have no problems. I hear these cars are pretty reliable.

 

Hope you dont mine but Im going to use that in my SIG, it just sings to me




[Modified by AKA EneMy X, 12:19 AM 1/25/2003]

 

Depending on how much track experience you've had, driver skill probably comes first. Next would be R compound tires (if you're not using them already), and then would come brakes (again depending on what you're using already).

However, the E36 M3 isn't THAT fast anyway. Remember, its power-to-weight ratio is identical with the ITR. If you're going to bother spending money to trade up to a faster car, I would get something that really IS much faster than either the M3 or the ITR - such as an NSX, or a Supra Turbo, or a Corvette, any of which can be had for under thirty.



[Modified by nsxtasy, 6:46 PM 1/24/2003]

 

you can get nice, low mileage 96ish ones for the low TWENTY's

 

Chicks love my car.

 

id say get the E36, one of my all time favorite cars. the only thing that turns me off about that car is the price and lack of aftermarket (compaired to the b-series aftermarket).

 

Do a search, this has been a big topic before.
M3 is a great car, maybe the best.....but parts, car and other are real expensive.
ITR is a great car, maybe almost as good as M3 for the price and performance.
Pay for what you get. My father has a E36M3 four door, he said if he had it to do over he would have bought 2 ITR's and had one for daily driving and one for track car. Parts are cheaper and u can make an ITR perform close to an M3. Good luck with your choice, I had to make the same choice. ITR was mine.

 

He said he had over 20 track days. That should be at least good enough for the higher ranks of intermediates...and he's still running with just a K&N filter. I doubt he would use street tires, because most ppl at intermediate level would most likely use R-compounds.
For the brakes, use better heat resistence pads and better fluids. A set of cheap and light wheels, some Kumhos, a set of decent I/H/E and a 4.7/4.9 Final Drive and I doubt those M3s will still pass you. This pacakge would not be more than $3000. I would spend money on a newer car with only 17,000 miles rather than some car that's has an unknown history.


[Modified by nEoMuGen, 9:07 PM 1/24/2003]

 

Chicks with sneakers dig ITR and chicks with high heels dig Bimmers. To each of his own, I prefer the high heels...

Hey...give me credits. But be prepared, you might get flam by the RWD elitists...
since them RWD ppl would argue that they can "turn" faster...well, we can break later...hehe




[Modified by nEoMuGen, 9:16 PM 1/24/2003]

 

Most of those changes won't make any substantial difference. For example, the final drive won't give you any overall benefit on a racetrack. Yes, it will make your car accelerate faster within each gear, but because it lowers your shift points, you will accelerate slower at some speeds, faster at others. It will help your acceleration at speeds where you're in the same gear in each setup, but will hurt your acceleration at speeds where the shorter FD forces you into a higher gear than the stock FD. Overall, it primarily helps in first gear (which means 0-25 mph or so) but will be of no overall advantage at speeds above that, which is where you spend all your time on a racetrack. (Depending on the speeds at any particular track, it may help on some tracks and hurt on others.)

 

I just picked one up as a daily driver.

It's a nice car.

I don't think you can go wrong when choosing between an ITR and a E36 M3.

The E46 M3 is an overweight pig though.

 

IMO, if you are just looking for a mostly track car, stick with the R. Install your new parts, maybe spend some $ on a few tuning and suspension parts, and drive the **** out of it. M3 comes with all the BS that IMO doesnt belong in a track car(leather heated seats for example). I would feel bad crashing my R on the track, but I would feel worse crashing an M3(so would my wallet).

Both are awesome cars, but Id say the ITR is easier to maintain, cheaper for parts, and definitely cheaper for repairs(especially with our discount places like http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.net and Baranco ).

Ryan

 

The E36 is an amazing car, but I have heard that it is anything but reliable. I own an E46 myself (not an M3) and it has had bunch of strange, expensive things go wrong. Thank you warranty! I have heard that E36 M3 engines don't last well, but this has been overshadowed recently by the E46 M3 engines blowing right up. I'd suggest factoring into the cost an extended warranty from a company like WarrantyGold, which would set you back a couple grand. An E36 M3 that was tracked a lot would more than likely have that much break or wear out anyhow. Ask the M3 guys about reliability and repair costs. I am sure they can be honest. I don't see much go wrong with ITR's unless they are heavily modified. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I have never heard of an engine failure of an ITR with stock internals.

I came to realize a long time ago that the ITR isn't the fastest car on the track, but it may be the BEST car for the track it its price range. It is perfectly balanced, forgiving, fun, and reliable as a track *****. Whether you buy an M3 or a Vette, there will always be SOMEONE faster than you. In the big picture, is passing a few more cars really worth the tradeoff in price and reliability?

Mike D.

 

I'm not gonna lie, I'm a sneaker guy myself

 

///M power!

i love mine! ebay

 

I would not own any BMW that is out of warranty

 

They do have odd things go wrong, even when they are well taken care of.

 

any high performance car is going to have minor issues.

BMW are *decently* reliable. The E36 has a few issues that need to be taken care of, then it should be fine. But Reliable for a BMW is never going to equal honda's 'weld the hood shut' reliability.

For a track only car, i'd stick with the ITR. It may not be faster, but it is way closer to track spec than any M3 short of a 95 Lightweight.

 

I just saw a '96 M3 w/low miles for $24K on a used car lot