Okay I've got my 1990 STD on the road now and I've already got the itch to swap out the brakes because the STD brakes SUCK horribly.

I'm trying to figure out exactly which front brakes will work and which ones won't.

A friend of mine that I rarely see any more (used to be a co-worker - mechanic) told me that he has put a set of 1988-1991 Prelude Si front spindles on his car and they just bolted up.

If this is true then I think I'd go for this set-up because there are a million 1988-1991 Preludes in my local yards.

Are the 1990-1993 front spindles a totally bolt-on affair?

Facts from experience would be great - rumors aren't what I'm looking for.


...and I don't care to do the rear discs because in all honesty rear discs don't do crap when compared to bigger front brakes. Trust me I know for sure that rear discs and stock-Civic sized fronts won't stop any better.

Lastly I also want to change the master cylinder and possibly the booster too.

I know for sure that the 1991 Civic EX 4-door master cylinder is an upgrade from the other Civic stuff. The 1991 EX 4-door one is a 15/16ths unit while the others are a smaller, crappier 13/16ths unit.

Bigger brakes need bigger m/c so I'm swapping it out for sure.

My next question is will a 1988-1991 Prelude non-ABS unit work? I've *heard* that it does, but I'm looking for proof if possible.

As far as boosters go, has anyone here swapped theirs out in favor of a bigger one? I'm thinking maybe a 1988-1991 Prelude non-ABS one or a 1990-1993 unit will bolt on along with the corresponding m/c.

Any help from experience would be great.

Perhaps we can trade knowledge - your 1988-1991 knowledge for my 1992-1995 knowledge.

 

If your stock brakes suck you should bleed the brakes or get a new MC. My stock brakes stopped the car nicely.

I have Teg Front and rear brakes on my car now (full knuckle assys and full trailing arm assys). They bolted right on but gave the front some toe-out. HTH.

Ben

I aso Have the teg ABS (1") MC and booster on there, they bolted up but needed a different fitting on one of the lines. It was a pita.



[Modified by Ben Ogle, 4:59 AM 1/18/2003]

 

Well when you're used to full GS-R brakes with stainless lines, slotted rotors, and Integra RS booster and m/c in a 1992 CX hatch that weighs 2040lbs. the stock STD brskes do seem slightly scary.

Also my other 1992 Si hatch has the stocker 4-wheel discs and it doesn't feel nearly as scary as the stock STD brakes.

I think the booster might be going bad because I have to push the pedal pretty hard to get some action - almost like there's not much power assist.

Plus the rotors are vibrating so really I'm just ready to upgrade.

 

i too run all wheel integra discs from a 90 ls, as well as the corresponding master cylinder and proportioning valve. i have not finished bleeding the rear brakes completely, in fact, i don't think they work much at all, but the fronts are more than adequate.

i know the integra knuckles are not as good as the civic 4door lx knuckles for suspension geometry (this is a rumor, i have yet to see some diagrams that prove this.) my car handles very well, with a shitty suspension setup of maxspeed coils on tokico blues. should do even better once i weld my cage in, and i replace all my bushings.

 

Wow, thats how much my 88 4dr dx weighs with the B18 and interior. what did you do to it?

I still think there is something wrong with your EF brakes. They shouldnt be scary at all. Mine stopped almost just as well as the DA brakes. The pedal feel is a little different (less movement), but there isnt a huge difference in stopping force.

I read this once as well. I dont know if its true though.

I need to get a DA proportioning valve. Do you know if it is adjustable at all? I dunno, I'm thinking of going back to the stock front brakes for the less unsprung weight. The car is an auto-xer and I dont need the bigger brakes.

Ben


[Modified by Ben Ogle, 5:58 AM 1/18/2003]

 

Ben, the DA proportioning valve is not adjustable.

OT: Do you have any bars for the EF?

 

Thanks for the intelligent discussion guys!



I love tech stuff.

Anyways I have installed 99-00 Civic Si front brakes on a 1989 Civic Si hatch (also had a B18C1 in it with a J1 tranny) and yes it messed up the front sus geometry very badly. We had to turn his camber kits around backwards and ADD NEGATIVE camber!!!

Ideally I'd love 1991 EX front knuckles, but those are non-existant in local yards here.

So has anyone experienced sus problems with Integra front brakes then? I guess the spindles for the Teg are a bit longer, thus adding positive camber? My car isn't lowered and I'm actually not sure if I will even lower it at all. Yeah it sounds crazy I know, but I want to retain the nice ride of the stock sus because I have two other hatches if I want to go "sporting" so this one will be the "luxury" vehicle.

I guess if I came across some 1990-1993 Teg fronts at a yard I could bolt them on and if it has positive camber add some really soft lowering springs to get the camber back to the negative or near zero side.

Then again if I lower it then I will most definately need new struts. These are costs that I'm just not sure that I want to deal with for this car.

I think the likelihood of running into 1988-1991 Prelude Si stuff is much higher than any 1990-1993 Teg or 1991 Civic EX stuff, so perhaps I'll be the first here to confirm or deny that it works.

Any others?

Bueller? Bueller?

 

Since when did you get an EF? I have lower rear tie bars that are on sale for $55 shipped. I also have 2 lower front tie bars if you have a d-series motor still. Did you send those wheels out? I would like to know when they will be coming.

The teg ones added no camber on my car, just a little toe out (and a lot of bump steer because of the toe out). I adjusted it back and it drives the same as with the stock brakes.

 

Not really sure if this will be helpful to you or not, but http://www.fastbrakes.com also sells a big brake upgrade for 1988-1991 Civic/Cr-x that is supposed to work pretty well.

 

the fast brakes option would be the best if other knuckles are not availabe.

my DA brakes added toe out and positive camber, car is dropped about 1.5 inches. after adjusting the alignment, car handles quite well, and the brakes are very strong, even though the rears are not fully bled yet.

 

2ndhandcrx: How much positive camber did Teg knuckles add? +1, +2? And what do you mean by saying "handles quite good". Did it handle better before the mod?

 

A very good upgrade is EX or SiR knuckles with Legend 3.2 calipers with shaved brackets (4mm). Fits like stock (no extension brackets!) and you'll have dual pistons!

 

my car was aligned almost two years ago, when it was on stock struts and intrax springs, with a ZC motor. using an ingalls upper control arm camber kit, the car was set at approximately -.5 to -1 degree of camber. this was with stock knuckles.

some time went by, the stock struts and intrax springs were replaced with tokico blues and maxspeed coilovers (yuck. given to me by a friend, not my choice!) and the ZC was ditched in favor of a B16. car was at approximately the same ride height as before, by adjusting the coils.

car handled ok, definitely feeling front heavy thanks to the B series powerplant. then the stock 89 crx si knuckles and trailing arms were swapped in favor of DA knuckles and trailing arms. the rear compensator arms were not changed, and the DA upper control arms were left on the trailing arms.

when i went for an alignment, i found that my front camber was about -1 degree, and my rear camber was about -1.7 degrees. my front toe was in a total of almost 4 degrees. i had waves in the front tread, to say the least. after correcting the front toe, the camber was moved 2 tenths of a degree towards 0. i believe i still have a bit of rear toe in, not enough to damage tread, not enough that i can tell.

so, all in all, was it worth it? i got the knuckles, m/c, prop valve and trailing arms for free, my expenses were in braided lines, brake fluid, and a mity vac speed bleeder. for about 150 bucks i have strong braking power, on worn out stock pads and rotors, which will be swapped out for some more aggressive pads. i think it was worth it.

 

So, all in all your camber is correct now. I am asking because I pray for better brakes. Now I have two routes to follow:
1. Stay 4lug, means buy aftermarket (Powerslot) 288mm rotors for front, shim ITR calipers I already own. Buy aftermarket rotors for rear and use ITR calipers I own plus replace two rear hubs (dead) and one trailing arm (hit).
2. Go 5lug, use ITR front knuckles, rotors and calipers that I already own, use rear calipers and rotors that I own and buy 2 rear trailing arms.
Option 2 will also allow me to use ITR rims, that are one of the few (the only one except Honda Civic OEMs?) ET correct rims available in Europe, not to mention those rims match my Championship white paint perfectly.
Advise?

 

Well again I must stress that I am not spending much money on this 1990 hatch.

If any car got Fastbrakes it'd be this one:



That's my sports car. the 1990 STD is my "beater" but I still want strong brakes above all else because brakes are very important to me.

 

Nice car man, that's a real beater!

280 or 282mm

Shave , I got it mixed up to

shaving = removing
shimming = adding

I love my setup, no fading and violent lock-ups @ 100mph are possible because my rear is still stock and those pistons get stuck all the time.. can't find the ITR calipers and the Accord 2.2's won't fit:

282mm powerslots+ ferodo DS2500 + DOT 5.1 + ss lines + twin piston legend calipers and SiR 15/16 MC