Back in October, I converted to OBD1 using Jason's harness. I couldn't get the car to start, and still cant. It's not the harness because I sent it back to Jason, and he said he rechecked the wiring, and the harness worked on another car.

The car I'm trying to start is a 90' LS (same **** as an EF thats why Im posting here). Trying to start up the stock B18a using a P28 ecu. Both the OBD1 dizzy, and P28 work on a 95'GSR.

When I try to start, I get a series of clicks from the starter (click-click-click-click.. almost like a machine gun). The lights in the cluster flash along with the erratic clicking. I have an alarm, and when keep trying to start it, I get the same clicks with a short buzz of the starter cranking over, and the alarm comes on.

I troubleshooted everything in the starting system using the helms, everything checked out okay ..although I am uncertain about the starter. It works, and cranks the motor smoothly when I bypass it to the car battery. I thought the problem was spark, so disconnected the distributor, and I still get the same ****.. click-click-click-click-click.. from the starter.
Has anyone had this erratic starter problem?

BTW, with the P28, Ive always had codes 20 - 23. Jason saw the CEL (I sent a video clip of it flashing) and turned out to be ELD electric load detector (which is the wire that connects to the powersteering fluid sensor), VTEC, and Knock sensor. I don't need VTEC, and powersteering fluid to start, and P28 doesnt use a knock sensor. So wuddaf**k?

 

:up:

 

check ya battery and dizzy.

 

You said that you hear clicks from the Starter when trying to crank over. But when you bypassed the Starter to the Battery, it cranked over fine..

To me, it sounds like the clicking noise is due to the fact that the Hold In Coil is out of spec. I believe it to be true because it can either be out of spec or not Grounding through the Starter.. And I know the Starter is providing a proper Ground because you said that you jumped power to the Starter and it cranked..

Here's a better explanation of the clicking noise.. There's two coils in the Starter Solenoid, a Pull In and a Hold In Coil. The Pull In Coil pulls the Plunger into place and the Hold In Coil holds the Plunger in place. As the Hold In Coil pulls the Plunger in place, the Disc at the end of the Plunger connects Terminals B and M together in the Solenoid. And as that happens, it cancels out the power to the Pull In Coil. If the Hold In Coil is out of Spec and doesn't have enough resistance, it won't be able to make a strong enough magnetic field to hold the Plunger in place and thus a No Crank Situation. This is also the same if the Hold In Coil is not Grounding through the Starter.

But anyways since the Hold In Coil is out of spec or not Grounding properly, as soon as the Pull In Coil pulls the Plunger up, the Hold In Coil is suppose to hold the Plunger in place and the Disc connects B and M together. And as that occurs, the Pull In Coil denergizes and the Plunger should stay held by the Hold In Coil. But since the coil is out of spec, it goes back down and CLICK.. As soon as the Disc disconnects B and M, the Pull In Coil is powered back up and pulls the Plunger back up and another CLICK... And as this happens continuosly, you get the machine gun chatter from the Starter Soleniod...

But here's what you can do, make sure the M Terminal on the Starter Solenoid is clean (it's the terminal with a cable connecting to the Starter) and not loose. Give it a good little tug.. Sometimes stupid things like that will cause No Crank Problems.. And after that I'd Ohm Check the Hold Coil too..

Hope this isn't too much.. If you've got more questions just shoot and get back to you ASAP.. Hope that shined some light on your problem.. Good Luck and Be Careful..


[Modified by PnX-R, 11:17 PM 1/17/2003]

 

check your battery, it might be shot. just take it to your local parts store, they can test it for free! i seen this happen on hondas, nissan, and toyota cars!

 

Aight, we set the multimeter to Ohms and checked the resistance between the S terminal (connector for black/wire), and the armature housing (ground; the silver end cap on the starter). The resistance: 0.3 - 0.4 Ohms

We checked between the S terminal and armature housing again ..this time using continuity, and there was continuity.

Between the S terminal and M terminal(bottom wire), we get the same results as the above. Resistance @ 0.3 - 0.4 Ohms, and continuity.


The battery is good. Holding > 12v. Its a new Die Hard from Sears.

 

Did you look at the specs for both of the coils??. I remember that the Pull In Coil should have more resistance than the Hold In Coil..

To me, it still seems like the Hold In Coil is your problem.. And if that's your problem, you're better off replacing the Starter Solenoid..

It's ok to buy a new Solenoid for the Starter. But it's not ok to buy a new Starter for the old Solenoid..

Anyways, I hope this helped a little.. Good Luck and let me know how it goes..

 

I tried to look for the electrical specs in the helms, but it doesnt have it for the coils. All it says is to check for continuity:
(1) Between the S terminal & armature(ground) for the hold-in coil.
(2) Between the S terminal & M terminal(bottom wire) for the pull-in coil.
And if there is continuity, then the coil is OK.

There was continuity on both.
So, the coils are good but the mechanicals are shot??

Edit: You said you remember that the pull-in coil should have more resistance than the hold-in. Both were equal @ 0.3 - 0.4 Ohms.


[Modified by Quick 200k Mile Motor, 7:02 PM 1/18/2003]

 

Not related to your starter problem but why are you using a p28 ecu? Why not use the obd1 LS ecu,distributor ,and etc? That's probably why you're throwing those vtec codes. Have you tried a known good starter from a friend or something just as a process of elimination? I used Jason's harness in a EF i've just done. DX to multiport to obd1 sohc vtec and i had no problems at all. Ran like a champ

 

The b18a will be rebuilt in the future with an addition of a PR3, or P72 head. I want to make sure the conversion starts up before I going shopping. A P28 (sohc) ecu is basically the same as a P72 (dohc) ecu. It doesnt matter if its dohc or not. I chose the P28 because Im going to run normal intake manifold.

The P28 will start up a non-vtec motor.
Vtec doesnt have to be connected (although I did connect the switch & solenoid and tried to start it up). 4-wire O2 has to be connected, and the distributor. I traced my problem down to the starter. I get the same machine gun clicking with or without the distributor connected. All the obd1 components that Ive added work on my brothers 95' GSR.

What if I spend time and $$$$ to get the motor & head done, and when I go to start it up ..it doesnt work!.
Starting system must work along with the conversion before I do anything!!

 

when i had this prob i wasnt getting enough power through to the starter. the positive cable going to the battery was so frayed and corroded it would not work
put a tester on the wires and see what kinda voltage u get when your trying to turn the car over.

 

Get a new battery, that happened to me. I thought the starter was bad, but it was the battery.

 

It is a brand new Die Hard battery from Sears.
It has been holding > 12v since Ive bought it a few months ago..

PnX-R where you at?

 

Check grounds, sounds like a ground, or a solinoid. A weak connection somewhere anyways.

 

Almost sounds like the problem I had, I replaced the starter and alternator, but it still did it. I think its the ignition switch though. Have you tested that out ?

 

Yes, I followed everything under Starting System in the Helms ..and I actually found another ignition switch test in a different section Key-On Warning, and the switch checked out okay again! Oh, and I forgot to mention..
Main relay is about half a yr old, and Starter relay is brand new.

Just to give an idea of what I see when Im turning the key:
The lights in the gauge cluster all flicker at the same time along with the clicking of the starter. It's in constant intervals (meaning.. it doesnt flicker faster or slower at other times, its the same **** every time). The flickering of the lights might be tied to something that is timed (something that is rotating, ocillating, or pulsating). We know it goes along with the erratic clicking of the starter, but what else?

Another schematic finding in the Helms makes the yel/blk wire and the Injector resistor look suspicious. Might have to do with a little conflict between OBD1 ecu, and OBD0 resistor box?

 

did you forget about your kill switch on the alarm. It sounds like the problem. did you check all of fuses.

 

i had the EXACT same problem after doing the mpfi swap, all i did to fix the problem was add a ground wire directly from the battery to one of the starter bolts......problem solved.

 

the obd1 conversion has nothing to do with the motor turning over, the switch wire goes directly to the ignition switch, never goes to the ecu. you can turn a car over with the ecu completly unplugged.

i kinda agree with trying to run a groung directly to the starter, but on the other hand, since you jumped the starter, and it turned, that doesn't sound like te problem.

reguardless of what helms says, and the tests say, it sounds like there is a problem between the switch and the starter.

the fact that you ran a wire straight to the starter, and it turned over rules out, starter and battery.

it also sounds like something is pulling too much of a load, due to the fact that your dash dims so bad.

get everything you need for the car to run, hooked up, turn the key to the run position, then jump the starter to see if it starts. tat will bypass everything, just to see if it may be the switch, or the clutch shut off switch...

 

WELL i had this happen on my accord once (gun-machine sound clicking) but it only happend once. I guess it went away.