New stereo system im going to install........How do you think it will sound?.......Heres a simple 1 line drawing of the basic layout

 

Looks good. What is the rating on the amp? Did you buy all of these parts yet, because I would suggest getting/keeping original set of coaxials for the rear and running them off of the HU. Then you can bridge the amp and get more power to your front componets. Plus save money in the process too!


o_O

 

the xtant 4 channel is 4x50 at 4 ohm but ill be running them at 4x100 @2 ohm(i belive) so im not worried about power and im buying everything a little at a time it should take me about 3 months to get all of it
i had components in my last car all the way around and hooked up the same way but not to such high end amps and it sounded excellent extremely clear


[Modified by xXxS_SxXx, 1:58 PM 1/8/2003]

 

I personally don't think that's a good system plan....I think that you could use your money/equipment more effectively

Why are you even considering running a 1kW amp to a single Kappa Perfect? I don't know what you are running the loads at, but one of two things will happen:

a) you are not taking full advantage of that huge amp
b) you will blow that Kappa sub

If it was my $$$
a) get another sub
or
b) skip the rear speakers all together, and use that xtant to run the whole system

That's what I would do. With the money you would save with "Plan b" you could get some higher end equipment, and have a better install, all resulting in better SQ...IMO. I think you are underextimating what 50W from that Xtant will really do...just my $0.02.

At a minimum, I would skip the rears and get some better front speakers. Then runt them all active off the Xtant 4 channel...that would be sweet.

Also keep in mind that the 1001dx is a current hog. It has a tightly regulated power supply, and at full tilt, it will be drawing around 150A!!! Not to say that you will ever listen to it at that level, but you had better consider some electrical upgrades beyond what any capacitor will help with.


[Modified by rcurley55, 8:19 PM 1/8/2003]

 

As stated above, ditch the rear components, and spend it on a better sub and elec. upgrades, or go with the single amp suggestion.

 

OK, I see what your saying so im going to drop the a1001 for the a301 or a601....i want to run 2 amps its just personal prefrence.....and by the way im using kappa perfect 12 dvc 1400w peak 350 watts rms and i like the 4 component setup its more money and im fine with that

 

Are you talking about ditching rear components? Or ditching rear speakers all together?

-PERSONALLY, I think you should ditch rear speakers all together. In a good SQ system rear speakers are just used as fill (or ambience). I think you could get away with no rear speakers.

-I also think you should go to 2 10s instead. The wavelength is shorter, meaning you will actually hear the sound vs. fell the car shaking.

It depends if you want your car to "slam" or sound great.

 

Honestly its not a bad setup......each spkr will see 75 watts the sub will see
500 watts ( these are all at 4 ohms will double @ 2 ). Will play with unbelievable
dynamic range....clarity and fidelity. I have used both these amps in system designs before....You will enjoy it..I gar- un -tee


[Modified by audioroach, 9:18 PM 1/11/2003]

 

thanks atleast someone can see quality

 

Sorry for my ignorance, but could you please elaborate on this idea for me? I am a complete novice What would your speaker recommendations be (6.5" component for the front)?

Also, I have an old ADS PQ-20 amp from my E30 M3 - would it be feasible to use this still?

Thanks in advance

 

I would ditch the tweaters in the back you want your sound to sound like it is coming from the front of the car. Some rear fill is not bad but with tweaters back there it will be to localized.

 

It's good to c there are ppl that know what they r talking about. i agree to most post. just a little change if it's my sys.
alpine deck (simply cuz. of sound quality), 6 1/2 front instead of 5 1/4(make it fit), 1 more sub, cuz. peak value don't mean anything. if ur amp is rated 1000W then two 350W sub will work nice w/ it. and for mids/highs, dont go 2 ohm. u'll loose sound quality. keep 1 pair of 5 1/4 without tweeters for rearfill.

 

How are you going to loose sound quality from a 2 ohm speaker? It is only an impedence rating, you can't coralate it to sound quality. This would only be an issue if the amp couldn't handle a 2 ohm load.

 

Typically as you drive your amp at lower loads (i.e. 2 instaead of 4 ohm) distortion increase, damping factor decreases etc....

Some amps are better then others at this. He's assuming that with the given amps that this difference will be audible.

 

Thx. rcurley55.

it depends on how good ur ears r. in most application u'll be able to tell the diff. cuz damping factor drop and increase distortion, unless it's a Soundstream Picasso.
personally i'm into sound quality not SPL

 

I would challenge anyone to hear distortion levels in the .05% or even .5% levels. I don't care for SPL either. The Xtant would do just fine in the 2ohm range. It really depend on how the amp was made. Making a blanket statement that 2 ohm speakers increase distortion is wrong. Same with the damping factor, if an amp was designed to use or run 2 ohm speakers they will design in a way to compensate. If this wasn't true we would all be running 8 ohm or higher impedence speakers.

 

I loved those E30's Great cars, although, I still think that the E36 M3 is quite possibly the most perfect car ever!!! I love that car.

Now onto audio:

Typically I like the KISS (keep it simple stupid) approach for most systems...especially in a daily driver. This means the less equipment the better. One goal that many people have when building a system is to try to reproduce what a live performance feels like. When you go to a concert or see an orchestra, the entire band is infront of you. Most media out there is recorded in 2 channel, not 4 channel (I'll keep DVD audio and 5.1 out of this discussion). This means that if you ahve rear speakers connected to your system, they are playing the same sounds as the front speakers. This is bad for a few reasons, but the biggest reason is the most elementary.....now you have two bands playing the same music at the same time....essentially....It would be like going to the concert and having two stages, one ahead and the other behind.....I personally find it confusing and annoying.

Some people say "I like feeling surrounded by the music"...that works for some people, and it doesn't work for others. Personally, I have found that a nice set of components with around 50 or 75w of power is plenty to fill any car with sound.

I also think that a sub woofer is an essential part of any good audio system. I'm a pretty picky SQ guy myself, and I still feel that a subwoofer makes the single largest upgrade to an otherwise stock system. It also creates stupid grins of satisfaction when you crank it up !!

So my suggestion to keep with the above theme is to find a nice 4-channel amp (between 50 and 75W - or even more, but it's not necessary), and use it to power the whole system. You can run the components off of channels 1 and 2. Then bridge channels 3 and 4 (giving you between 200 and 300W) for a single subwoofer. I prefer to use a 12", as I feel it's a good compromise between trunk space and sound.

I love the old a/d/s/ stuff, and I'm a big a/d/s/ fan, but that particular amp is a two channel if I'm not mistaken. This leaves you with two options, grab a second amp to power a subwoofer, or keep that amp for another project and get a new amp.

There are a few benefits to the one amp theory. There's a lot less wirining....no distribution blocks are needed. The foot print is also generally smaller. Some of them (like an Arc 4150 or PG 500Ti) have a sub level controller on one pair of channels so that you can control the bass from the drivers seat...it's a nice option to have.

Another thing that I like about this style system, is that it really allows an easy upgrade path. For example, if you want more bass, you can take the 4 channel and use it to run the front speaker (by either bridging it or dedicating one channel to each driver in your system) Then you just buy a new amp for your subs and you are set. You could also go to a three way front stage. HLCD's could be an option too.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that your equipment is now very flexible. If you buy a mono bass amp, you are stuck running subs off of it...nothing else. If you upgrade, you need to either buy another amp (the trunk space is shrinking quickly) or you sell it...etc.

As far as component selection...I could give you 25 sets that you should listen to before you decide. This is a very subjective area, and you may hate what I like. A few suggestions to get you started...try the following:

a/d/s/ 3 series
Image Dynamcis Chameleons
Focal Polykevlar
Boston Acoustic Pros
CDT HD and Eurosports
OZ Audio
Rainbow Pro
Diamond Audio (especially if you can find the old Eton drivers made in germany)
MB Quart
JL Audio
DEI
Xtant - these are actually made by Morel!!
Canton
Illusion Audio

That's just a start. You will have a hard time finding most of these systems at your local electronics store, so look for the small mom and pop stores. Bring your own music. Turn off all the EQ circuits and keep the head unit settings flat (I.e. no loudness or enhancement functions, and bass and trebel set to 0). Bring a cd you like and that you know very well, and just listen. Don't look at price tags...just check things out. One store will only have a few brands, that's why it's important to set the EQ to flat. Also make sure that the amplifier power used is both representative of what you will be using, and tha tthey are the same at each shop....adding power can totally change a system's character. Other then that....trust your ears!!

Hope that helps a bit....

 

So with this setup it will be impossible to control fade from the head unit?

can you control it from the amp itself?

 

True, blanket statements are fairly bad - I made a few assumptions based on the topics that have been discussed throughout this thread. I guess if you wanted me to get real technical/accurate I could/should say that for most Class a/b amps (the ones that are designed for 4 ohm stereo loads) when you run them at 2 ohm stereo you will see a decrease in damping factor and an increase in distortion.

Check any manual you want, and specs change based on load. I can't think of one amp out there that sees a measurable increase in performance (minus the increased power - meaning lower distortion, etc) when you decide to run it at a lower impedance. If you know of one, let me know.

I agree that the Xtant would be fine, but regardless of what an amp is designed for, the load placed on it will change how the amp reacts. Everything in audio is a tradeoff....extra power doesn't come for free...it comes at the expense of something, whether it be increased current draw, increased distortion, decreased damping factor, increased heat, etc...

The only amp that may/may not react this way is a JL...past that nothing is free in audio. Now there's a huge difference between what can be measured, and what can be heard. It's really a situation where a compromise is made between what is audible and what we can live with. I would never suggest that one person avoid a 2 ohm driver because of increased distortion.

Oh, by the way, I will be running some 2 and 8 ohm drivers in my SQ system...and no, they are not subs

 

Depends on how you set it up. You can use either the amp or the head or a combo of both. It really depends on the equipment that you choose and how you wire it all up.

 

HA HA HA. dude, u just made a fool out of yourself. lets do te math is u don't have a habit of cleaning ur ears. A 500W amp w/ THD 0.05% as u state. 500X0.05% is .25W; @ .5%THD 500X.5% is 2.5 W. if u can't hear 2.5W of noise, get a Pyramid or Craig.

xXxS_SxXx:
Don’t get me wrong, I like Xtant amps. My point is, if looking 4 an Xtant, obviously u want something that sounds nice and clean. So y ruin the sound quality, there wont' be a big difference, but if u an audiophile, u can tell the diff.

Wiring and tuning correctly is most important thing.

Well said rcurley55!!


[Modified by Jack5qg2, 10:20 PM 1/13/2003]


[Modified by Jack5qg2, 10:21 PM 1/13/2003]

 

Well if you have an amp lie the one from my other thread (Alpine 4 channel), can you use the HU to fully control balance and fade while powering all interior speakers?

 

its kind of funny how everyone flipping out about bridging a xtant amp there a 1/4 ohm stable sound quality my *** i could use a cheap *** sony deck and it would still sound fine

and im using a audio control eqx


[Modified by xXxS_SxXx, 9:27 PM 1/13/2003]

 

Thanks everyone (especially rcurley55)

 

for a single sub setup, the xtant x603 is a very popular amp to use. it offers a nonfading 4 channel with a substantial 5th channel. i believe it is 50x4 with a 350 watt sub channel.