Alright here goes. For the past few months i have been running the 60-1 t3/.63a/r turbo on my internally stock poor man's itr. While the car is extremely fast, and boost hits harder than any other turbo car i have been in before, I notice that i am lusting for a more broader powerband. I get full boost at 5,500 rpm, and really pulls starting at 6,000rpm. Once the turbo hits, there is nothing at all that can even touch the car (14psi on pump gas). This is my daily driven car, I rarely see the track. Now here is my delema. I am putting in the following engine swap:

84.5mm GSR bottom end (golden eagle sleeves, 9:1 wiseco pistons, eagle rods)
Portflow'd b16a head, Victor x intake
b16a tranny w/quaiffe
maxrev manifold, 3" dp, 3" exhaust, 720cc, Hondata tuned, PWR fmic

I was shooting for 500whp+ to reach into the 10 second 1/4 mile range. After rethinking how much power i need, it should be around 450whp for a 95 civic cx hatch to reach high 10's. Now while peak power is great for high dyno numbers and trap speeds, this is my daily driver and i dont want such a narrow powerband. I would love for boost to hit hard at 3,000 rpm up to 8,200-8,400rpm. I know my choices in turbine housings are either .63 or .82, but the .82 will leave me again with a narrow'd powerband for daily driver use (who revs there car out to 9,000rpm on the daily anyway?). After thinking of the turbo's I can run that will give me the power that i would like i have came up with the following:

1. t3 60-1/.63a/r (my exsisting turbo, just leave it alone and see when it makes full power)
2. t3/t40e 60 trim, .63a/r
2. t3/t40e 57 trim .63a/r

I am thinking that the 60 trim .63a/r t3/t40e will do the trick just nicely, but i need some other peoples opinions. From looking at the compressor maps, all the turbo's would be efficient for the boost pressure that i want to run (14lbs daily, 24lbs track or what ever pressure will give me around 450-500whp). So my requirements for the turbo are as follows:

1. Full boost by 3,000 rpm
2. Make power to 8,200rpm
3. Support around 500whp

My reasoning for a broader powerband is I would like to do a bit of autocrossing, roadracing, etc with my car. Its nice going fast in a straight line, but the call of other motorsports has left me wanting something more out of my car. Anyone with some experience with these turbos, please chime in here.

 

keep that turbo and throw a stage 5 wheel in there

 

That would be even more laggy than it is now. I want something more with a linear powerband than what i have now.

 

I just spent an hour going over the compressor maps between the 60-1, 60 trim and 57 trim compressors from turbonetics site. I have determined that the 57trim compressor will be a good match for a 2.0 liter bore, boost between 12-14psi. That would get me right into the heart of the efficiency (78%). Now, I plan on running 20-22lbs max. so the 60 trim compressor map is actually a better match than the 60-1 compressor map. I am still 78% efficient at 12-14psi (my daily driven psi level), and 75% efficient at 22lbs (my race psi level). I would like everyone to really learn what the compressor maps mean, and that even though the 60-1 is a great high power turbo, the 60 and 57 trim compressors are the best bet for 1.6/1.8/2.0 engines that are street driven. I am going with the 60 trim t3/t40e .63a/r, and keeping the 60-1 if I cannot make the numbers that i need to get into the 10's. If my calculations are correct, than the 60 trim will provide around 500whp at 22lbs, enough to get me into the 10's...

 

Turbo's are gehy. There is no replacement for displacement.

 

have you looked into precision turbo ?

you'll be surprise on the comparison of it versus garret turbo...the wheels are so much different, the number of blades, the sizes of the minor and major wheels, the shape and curves of the major and minor wheels...

the surface of the turbine housing is so much smoother than garret, I believe it was extrude honed from the factory...

I am going to dyno my car soon, I'll post a number and comparison....

you'll be surprise..

Also, you can also compare the sizes of the housing of both turbo...the stage 3 63 housing is larger than the garrett housing and the outlet is about 1/4" larger in diameter than the garrett....
not too mention they're less than garrett pricing too...and I got it from Arturbo, he's the precision turbo authorized dealer...

Stan

 

I dont think u will get full boost by 3000rpm's with any turbo u listed. at least not w/ a .63 AR. maybe if it was ball bearing and had a good equal length manifold to help with spool. but i still dont think ur gonna get 14psi @ 3000rpms.

 

I am not that familar with Precision turbo's, but everyone seems to be liking them. I will have to check out their compressor maps, and the quality of the turbos. I am seeing incredible prices from Cheapturbo.com, if I can get a precision turbo for 500-600 then I will go with one of those. As far as spool up at 3000rpm, I have been told by Geoff and a few others that the 57 trim .63a/r will give full boost by 3,500-4000rpm on a gsr block with the maxrev log manifold. Taking that into consideration, a 2.0 liter block with headwork should be able to make full boost by 3,000-3,500rpm. Again, I am only going by other people have told me that I trust with information. Anyone have a link to the precision website, or better yet the compressor maps.

 

As far as finding the compressor maps, they dont release them. And as far as finding that cheap it'll almost impossible. Let me upload some pics so you can compare..

art

 

Here are some pics, IM me if you want more of more turbos.
SC54 Compressor housing




sc54 Turbine housing

 

thats a text book signout card in that compressor housing!

 

its the warranty card they provide with the specs of the turbo etc...

 

I think hes talking about full boost as 7-8psi. not 15-25. my .63 ar w/ stage 3 wheel and 57 trim hits 8psi at 3800 and 15psi at 4500, id imagine 25psi would be about 5000 or so. it starts spooling at 3000 though. if u want quicker spool w/ more efficiency at less cfm definitly downgrade to 57trim but just dont plan on having 15psi before 4000.

 

I know this turbo is kinda small but does anyone know anything about it?

Turbonetics T3/T4 Hybrid Ball Bearing Turbo(polished)
some specs:
compressor: E-50
turbine: a/r ratio .63 stage II

I'm sure it would be a fun *** turbo on the street but have limited top end

 

I know how to calc/read compressor maps and I chose the .63 stage 3 / .60 57 trim and while my power requirements are lower then yours ; I do have an equal length stainless manifold with a full 3" back on a 1.8vtec. It definetly does not have full boost (10lb spring) by 3000RPM. That just isn't happening. Unless you use a variable vane turbo (aerodyne doesn't make them big), you can't have the best of both worlds...and it's still doubtfull with a variable vane. Unfortunatly, we want to see that fat wheel HP which demands at least a .63 turbine..and on a standard non-ball bearing (probably not even with) you just are not gonna have sick power down low and high. It's all relational. (sorta )

 

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=307929

 

Hi Javier, I see that thread was a reply to me....I read it and don't understand what you were trying to point out there. Thanks.

 

true, not directed towards u...just to the post in general.

 

I should have been a bit more clear when i said full boost by 3,000rpm. I meant my street trim full boost, which would be around 12psi. You are probably right thinking back to the full boost rpm's between my b16a and gsr blocks running the 60-1 t3. The b16a block gave me full boost by 6500rpm, where as the gsr block gives me full boost (14lbs) at 5,000-5,500rpm. I would assume all things being equal the 2.0 gsr block would give me full boost by 4,000-4,500rpm with a 60-1. If this where true, then I should see some full boost times with less trim size (60 trim vs. 70 trim) at around 3,500-4000rpm for 12psi on a 2.0 block.

Art, the precision turbo's are a much higher quality than the standard garrets that i have been using in all my project cars, but they dont have the 4 bolt flange. I would have to cut off my 4 bolt flange on my downpipe, and weld the precision style flange on it. I usually do my own welding when it comes to mild steel, but my downpipe is stainless and that requires me to have a friend do the welding and he is super busy for the next few months. I think that I am just going to stick to the standard garret t3/t4 for the price, and also since i can have access to all the compressor maps.

Now my next question is how much whp can the 57 trim vs. the 60 trim support? I remember seeing ninesecrx have a dyno plot of a 54 trim t3/t04e hitting the mid to upper 400's on race gas. There is all I will need to reach my 1/4 mile goal, so with a slighty larger trim size and more displacement the power will be a bit easier to produce.


[Modified by boosted hybrid, 10:44 AM 12/25/2002]

 

I just looked at the compressor maps for the 50 trim to4e, and it looks like it covers a greater area for my application than the 57 or 60 trim. I thought that the larger trim sizes where geared more towards higher psi levels, but it seems that the 50 trim covers a greater efficiency for both 12psi and 20-22psi for my 2.0 liter block. Can someone please elaborate on this? I remember reading an article in SCC back about a year ago with a turbo integra having a 50 trim t04e making close to 500whp, is this true?

 

get a garrett gt35 - quick spooling...

 

Precision Turbo Harry from PT is a mad scientist. His t67 turbo's are making over 800+hp!!! Turbonetics is slowly slipping away. By the way I'm a Precision Turbo dealer also. Shoot me an email for prices.I'm doing a buy in right now and need about 2-3 more customers. I'll be passing the savings along also.


[Modified by MotorMatrix.com, 6:15 PM 12/25/2002]

 

The GT series turbo is out, way to expensive. The precision turbos are also out, a bit to expensive and dont have the 4 bolt flange. I know that i can make the power with a 57 trim or 60 trim compressor. I dont need 500+whp to get into the 10's, so even the 60-1 is too large. I searched for a 50 trim, but nothing came up. I just want to know why the 50 trim compressor has a better fitting map than the 57 and 60 trim for my application, and will it support the horsepower that i need (around 450whp).

 

u can get 4 bolt or 5 bolt flanges on the Precisions. I think SC series is 5 bolt, not sure what code is for 4 bolt.

 

I would be interested in the precision's if they would have a 4 bolt flange. I keep doing searches, and cannot find any real information or pictures of the turbos expect the ones that are posted on this site.