My Civic has developed a knocking sound right under the rear seat bottom on both sides. This leads me to believe that I have bushings at the leading end of the trailing arms that are failing.

Are there any others of you that have experienced this problem with the "heavier" duty usage we tend to put our cars through? Is it easier/better to just buy new arms with the bushings and everything already pressed in, or to just replace the worn piece? Any drawback to using a Poly bushing in place of an OEM part?

Thanks in advance.

 

I am actually don't have experience with the ta bushing failing but....are you sure that is it? Seems really early for a newer car to develop that. Did you check your sway bar? Is it a new item? Exhaust?

If you do have a bad bushing, you will need to pull the ta to install either a new arm or a poly bushing. I don't believe you can get a OEM bushing alone. I would go with a poly bushing. Much much cheaper than buying new arms. Once the arm is out, use a torch on the bushing 'center & shell' to get it soft. You will be able to see the bushing edges get shiney. Work on the center first. When you can, push it out. Next push the bushing out of the shell. Clean up any residual material. Grease up & install the Energy Suspension part.

 

That large bushing has slowly been tearing in my GSR, and a shop mechanic once told me it is not an uncommon problem in the early 90 Civics and 3G integras. BTW, this happened before I even did any track events. Did you do a visual inspection to see if they are tearing? I think what you would first get uneven tire wear from needing a wheel alignment, unless you have purposely changed your camber.

I am going to put poly bushings in my car, but don't know if there are drawbacks to doing it---I already bought them anyway. If you get poly, the Prothane is more expensive but it already comes with the middle metal piece installed, whereas with the cheaper ES you have to burn the metal out of the bushing and re-use it with the new bushing. I've been told by a mechanic that those are a pain to put on.

Mugen also sells harder bushings for the trailing arms. You can find them at OPM or King motorsports.

 

I'm fairly sure. I've done some work on the car trying to cure it (replacing swaybar endlinks, and all rubber pieces in the shock/spring assemblies) and nothing has cured it. This only leaves bushings as suspected parts. I further narrowed it down when I could hear them slightly knocking as I was crawling around in the car during the rollbar installation.

Yes, it is a newer car, but it also has the mileage of an older car. (97,500 or so).

Vitt, thanks for the info on the Prothane bushings...I'll certainly look into those.

 

If/when you put the poly rear trailing arm bushing in, *watch it* next time you go on track. My first time on track with these installed, I damn near spun off in turn 1 at VIR. It was so different that I came in after lap 1 and turned the rear shocks down a bunch.

Apparently (someone correct me if I'm wrong here), the design of the OE bushing is such that the loaded rear wheel toes in just a bit under compression. You're taking this passive rear steer away when you install the poly piece.

 

That was certainly a concern of mine. Thanks for the head's up, Karl.

 

Karl is right about the way the suspension reacts. I actually find it more predicatable now that I am used to it.

The Prothane system requires you to have a press to install their system. The ES can be done as I described above.

 

Have you checked your compensator arm bushings and their mountings?

 

civicrr, sounds like your install was easy enough, unlike I was told. You don't really need to have a press to install the Prothane, you can just take it to a machine shop and have them take out the old one and install the new. I don't think it would cost that much, and you also won't need a torch to take out the old one. But, as I said, the Prothane costs more to start with.

 

Well, the first side didn't go that easily @ first. We didn't heat it enough initially. There was drilling, prying & swearing until we tried the torch again.

On the Prothane, I guess I should have said that you will either need a press, have a friend who does or pay someone.

 

I've been prepping my rear suspension for bushings, and have already installed the trailing arm bushings. I had also prepped the toe link arms, and upper control arms (removed rubber, cut out shell, etc...) only to discover that ES does not have poly for these locations. What about Prothane? I know Mugen has them, but they are pretty expensive. I also have to chnage the lower control arm bushings, but ES does not have them for my 88 Civic/CRX/ITR lower control arms (another expensive Mugen part).

Any ideas?

 

the trailing arm bushings are shot in my car as well. i'm going to try the mugen peices, since i've had such bad luck with urethane.

changing the bushing "shouldn't" have changed the passive rear steer. honda designed it so that bushing didn't deflect much fore and aft, which it does a lot more once the bushing is worn out. fixing that probably limited how far the axle line shifted under braking. the axle line shifting could give a different rear steer characteristic. i just wanted to clarify so that people wouldn't be scared of improving this bushing.

nate

 

Has anybody cut their own bushings? ES and Prothane don't make trailing arm bushings for my application. And I doubt Mugen does either.

 

 

Nine hours and some swearing and my fab got the ES TA and LCA bushings installed. It does require that you take the arm off to do it right. The Prothane is easier to install-only-if you have a press available. The ES bushings reuse the center mounting pin and it has to be cleaned and smoothed before reinserting it in the bushing. Do they work-yes; along with the LCA bushings and sway bar bushings you will find the suspension is stiffer in the rear. I drove my CRX here from Charlotte and it made more noises than I thought possible-the stock bushings were indeed toast.
My advice is to replace the TA and LCA bushings along with the Sway Bar bushings and end links. If you have not done so-now is a great time to replace the brake lines with either Russell or Goodridge SS ones. We decided NOT to install bushings in the upper arms as they were still like new (had been replaced so it looks).

 

Thanks, folks...

I think I'm going to hold off on the whole set until I fully commit this car to being a race-only vehicle. Right now, it's a daily driver (with a rollbar and harnesses ) and I can't really afford to take it off the road any more than 2 days, so I'm really only interested in fixing this particular problem for now. What I think I'll do is pull the trailing arms off on my own and take them to my friendly neighborhood garage and have them do the bushing replacement for me. I'm thinking, after listening to the knock a little closer, that the compensator arms (and their mountings) need some new stuff in there, too. I'll get those taken care of, as well.

While I'm at it, I think I'm going to play a little with the rear ride height and maybe bring it down a little bit to gain a little extra camber back there.

Mike (Also using this as a "TTT" for smokin rubber.)

 

Yes. I replaced mine with urethane inserts.

 

You might call OPM and see if they can do you some out of delrin. Thats the only thing I can think of apart from Mugen stuff.

 

Yes.
Panhard Rod bushings for the Volvo.

A rod of Delrin + machines = Easy work to make them.

 

If you have the equipment/time/skill, you can buy Delrin stock from McMaster Carr and make your own bushings. We did this for the offset front upper control arm bushings for my car.

Or Walt Puckett can make some for you through OPM.

 

You should be able to go to a plastics store to get your delrin. I got mine from TAP Plastics. The trick would be to find a lathe to get it turned down. Most machine shops don't want to take the time for a one off project like that.

 

Sure....

I can see them working on a 17 year old Volvo... much less someting that is not a 142E.

 

I don't see why not. I've seen them work on a 30 year old Boss 302 Mustang and a 35 year old Ferrari. Then there are of course the 25 year old VW Rabbits and Sciroccos...
And the Renault R5 Turbo...
Then there was the Limited Slip they managed to get built for a '74 Jensen Healey...

I'm guessing the Volvo wouldn't be outside their range. I could be wrong though.

 

thanks, but I dont know if I even need them now, see sig