Ok,

im just going to touch on a few subjects that ive been meaning to address. the purpose of this is to get your opinions and just an overall forum of discussion regarding the topics, or whatever you guys want to bring up. i thought this would be fun to see what others have to say.


First: The rumor that CART will go to a standing "F1 style" start, as opposed to the rolling grid under green. your thoughts?

Second: IRL, they have the fuel "buckeye" on both sides, and have never claimed that they would ONLY race circle tracks, any future plans for road courses?

Third: How do you think Schumacher would fair in another vehicle BESIDES a Ferarri, is it hte car, or is he THAT good? and how bout Ruebens, is he a mediocre driver in a great car?

Fourth: This one is a stretch, but i heard this a few weeks ago, rumored proposed new F1 format, where drivers would switch cars each race, there would be no Driver - Manufacturer contracts, just driver - F1 contracts. so each race you would see a driver in a different car, to make for a "true" drivers and manufactureres championship.

and Finally: Can JPM make it in F1? hes only hte second man ever to make a 160mph pole, however will he fall in the fate of previous CART ---> F1 drives? (Zanardi, Da Matta?1?! Villenueve, Andretti?) with the exception of Da Matta who is still to prove, the others have not had succsess making the jump.

what do you guys think about these topics? lets get some opinons flying!

 

1 - I like the idea of a standing start personally. I think it make the start more exciting, and depending on the technology in the car, can showcase driver skill.

2 - I *really* wish IRL would run some/most roadcourses...I simply cannot stand seeing them going around in circles over and over unless they are at Indy (for some reason it doesnt bother me as much there!)

3 - Depends on the car, but I think Schmui is easily the best out there. I dont think it would be possible for him to win races in a Minardi, however he has virtually always out-qualified and out-raced his teamates (some exceptions). Ruebens I feel is an average-to-slightly-above-average driver, but nothing to write home about. He is simply in the best machinery right now, and it makes him look good.

4 - Thank goodness that was just a rumor, as that is truly a stupid idea IMHO. The changes for 03 are to the qualifying session, where a driver basically gets 1 shot at setting his time if I remember correctly. Also team orders that would interfere with the outcome of the race are prohibited.

5 - JV was world champ in 97 after coming over from CART. Granted he hasnt done much with BAR, but we all know they problems they have had and you can hardly blame thier performances on him. JPM will be world champion the year after MS retires, which I actually believe will be after he wins his 6th WDC this year. I predict JPM will be champ in 2004, provided that Williams/BMW give him reliabile machinery.

Melbourne 03 cant come soon enough!

 

Interesting points! i agree for the most part, except for my hatred of JPM lol (bring it on NegativeLift )

 

BAHHHHHHHHAHAAH I look forward to this.......But we all really know that the original quote to that picture in your avatar is "HEY YOU, yea YOU with the Red Car, Wanna go make out in the paddock?"



JV: "Juan, look at me, i am beautiful. please, print this picture out, put it at your night stand, i am the epitome of excellence. "


[Modified by NYb16, 12:43 AM 12/23/2002]

 

I think the standing start will be better than the rolling start, because it will add another element to driver skill and be better for the fans. Of course they shouldn't do it on the ovals.

If the IRL goes road racing, we are going to see a war, and it will probably hurt open wheel racing in the USA even worse than it has already been. Maybe CART needs Bernie Eccelstone's help to defeat the Bill France/Tony George IRL/NASCAR alliance.

Schumacher is the main factor in Ferrari's domination. Without him the team would still be on or near the top but the fight would be closer with wins going to McLaren and Williams as well.

In this article (http://www.itv-f1.com/news/news_story/13724) Frank Williams said "We have two strong drivers in Juan Pablo Montoya and in Ralf Schumacher. But, I am honest. Michael is the biggest problem for everyone, he is extraordinary." Frank has been around F1 a long time, and if he says it, its probably true.

I think the driver switching idea is fun to imagine but I wouldn't like to see it in practice. There are too many variables in car performance vs. time of season, weather, and track to decide how to alternate the drivers throughout the season to make sure they all have equal chance.


Lastly, JPM is the man and will win a F1 WDC. It may not be with Williams, but it will happen. Then during the championship press conference at Suzuka he will point at NYB16 like he is in my avatar, and say "recognize, punk b*tch!"

 

1. great idea, more interesting starts, but it wont work. there will be way too many stalled engines and it will look like amateur night at the dirt track.

2. who cares about irl. the last thing the world needs is another nascar.

3. mike is a great driver but it's obvious in F1 that $ = trophy.

4. yea, right.

5. put montoya in the ferrari and it's another 10 years of boring racing with ferrari in the lead. dematta may surprise a few people. it's the quiet ones you gotta watch out for.

 

1. No reason standing starts can't work in CART - assuming there is a CART to actually use them. FAtlantic used standing starts in North America for decades and it was always a spectacle. Most of the starts in CART last year were a mess anyway, so why not introduce another variable? As far as stalling goes, it will happen but they manage to make a couple dozen pitstops at each race with, what, maybe a 5% stall rate?

2. Who needs a successful, commercially viable, grandstand-filling open wheel racing series (a la NASCAR)? We do. IRL will run road courses in 2004 for sure - my crystal ball - and I would fully expect that they will test during the 2003 season.

3. Hello - $$ = winning in ANY form of motorsport. Let's not forget that the reason Mikey is banking all of those Euros is because he proved he was fast out of the box in a Jordan.

4. It'll never happen - to many "I got mine" folks in the business. They may go down fighting for the last dollar, as the series collapses around their greedy ears, but they will go down fighting...

5. Geez. What does poor JP need to do to prove that he has "made it"? I would call his F1 career to date more than succesful. I fully expect that Shorty will do a fine job but he will not have the benefit of a realtively flat playing field, where chassis and engine manufacturers are concerned.

Kirk

 

They make a couple dozen stops per race?? holy sh*t, I didn't know they have a 24hour race in CART! I better check my Speed Channel listing!!!

Like I said, who needs another nascar. We certainly don't.

I beg to differ with you on this. I have seen plenty of club racing where Joe "Bling" Schmoe brings his Ferrari to the track to get whooped by Joe "Shoestring" Racer in his custom built 15 year old corvette. At the pinnacle of racing in F1, money talks and BS walks. CART doesn't even give the most well financed team the win. Easily Team Green spent more running three cars this season than Newman/Haas. Who completely ran away with the championship? Chimp Ganassi has had incredible support from Target for years and hasn't taken the trophy girl home since Montoya left.

 

1. Great! More action. But what CART really needs to do is limit the number of full course cautions. Bring in some cranes ala F1 for street circuits (and no engine re-starts) and just don't use full course cautions on natural terrain road coarses. Not much you can do on ovals unfortunately.

2. I prefer the looks and sound of the IRL cars. Bring them to road course. Heck whatever it takes to bring CART and IRL together will be welcome.

3. Schumacher's natural skills and testing ability would allow him to be competitive in any car given the same budget he has available now. He COULD make Minardi fast given the time and money.

4. Stupid..more WWF (or E or whatever it is now) than NASCAR.

5. No..he is in or near his prime. The unfortunate situation is he (or anyone for that matter) is in his prime at the same time as MS. By the time MS retires there will be new drivers like Webber or some other young guns. Montoya's only shot to win a WC is if he drives Ferrari the year after MS retires (and wins a championship). It also doesn't help that both William's drivers are very closely matched. MS beats Reubens 90% of the time..JPM and Ralf could go 50/50 it seems.

 

Hello, Tiffany! There were more than one car in a CART race last season. 2003 may be a different matter, of course.

Not surprising, considering they had 50% more cars on the track.

I was talking about racing (like with cars built to specific rules competing under sanction), not some "my ***** is bigger than yours" track day.

Kirk

Who thinks knee-jerk NASCAR bashing and CART elitism represents a pretty myopic view of the motorsports world.

 

LOL You are in VA afterall, so it's understandable that you've been socialized to love those southern boys.

Oh you must be mistaken cuz 90% of the world's bashing of nascar is not knee-jerk, oh no, we've all given plenty of thought to how boring and inconsequential that series is.

Hey, I've got an idea, let's see how fast we can go while restricting the output of yesterday's technology. I finally figured out why they don't turn right. It would totally confuse the fans.

I myself have neve suggested that CART is an elitest series, but it is certainly more productive than nascar. Racing is supposed to push technology forward, so that one day we have better cars. It's a trickle down effect. It works! Honda puts out 100hp per litre while maintaining great gas mileage and streetability...and at a cost that is very affordable. Maybe that's why GM and Chrysler lost their ***** for so many years and are just now starting to catch on. Consumers want newer and better. It seems simple enough to easily understand.

I can say one thing for sure, even if we don't agree on racing, it's good that we both have things that we can enjoy. Happy holidays.

 

I think Kirk (among others here) recognizes some of NASCAR's merits. Like most of the drivers aren't ham-fisted also rans like I'm sure you want to believe. I also think CART could learn A LOT from NASCAR about marketing and hitting a target audience. Ooooh, lets have a roundy-round race in England (or was it Germany ... or both). The CART race at Michigan is (was) probably 10 times more exciting than any NASCAR race at a similar venue (super speedway), yet who even knows about it?

Again, how can NASCAR's marketing and general media blitz be "inconsequential"?

Well at least you have that right by the fans ... at least the ones who show up to see "big wrecks."

What in the name of riceboyishness is this drivel?

So then why is NASCAR more popular in the United States than CART?

 

Here is another topic that I am curious to see take place. I understand now that Formula 1 teams are allowed to have two different cars. One for qualifying, one for the race. I believe this is going to increase costs drastically.

There qualifying vehicle will be extremely fast and extremely light. They just need one flying lap with a burst of speed.

What is everybody elses take on this. Sorry to shift things around.

Happy Holidays,

AJ Nealey

 

Hey, now - don't let the Virginia address fool you. I am a reformed yuppie, sushi-and-Birkenstocks liberal transplant from Seattle...

I guess that this boils down to a conversation about what "racing" is supposed to be about. If one thinks of it as a technology showcase, then NASCAR is pretty weak but I obviously take a different view. To me, the real miracle of motorsports is not when things are computer controlled but when there are enough spectators and commercial interest to make it possible to buy whatever technology is involved on someone else's commercial investment.

I would pay to watch WC run at Sears Point (whateverthehelltheycallitnow) or the Glen, and can appreciate the skills that it takes to make one of those things run up front for 500 miles on an oval, but mostly I just think other series could learn from its success. IRL might actually do that, pulling constrained technology onto road courses. It has some of the best young formula car talent in the world in its driver ranks and a full IRL field someplace like Mid-Ohio or Road America would put FIA F3000 to shame, on a similar per-car budget.

Ho, ho, ho!

Kirk

 

A fellow with your same initials (Adrian Newey) brought up this issue after the ruling of a one lap qualifying session.

As an example, he said that for 1 flying lap, a qualifying engine may be designed to run with very little or no cooling, and would result in very small radiators, or none at all. This would lead to a very different body shape and hence an entirely different qualifying car with little in common aerodynamically with the race car.

 

regarding NASCAR, and who needs another one, well apparently Europe (ASCAR) and Canada (CASCAR) do.

I'll take open wheel over NASCAR any day but CART could learn a lot from NASCAR marketing. Like someone said before the Michigan 500 was one of the most exciting races in open-wheel, but no one was in the stands. Juan Montoya went wheel-to-wheel with Michael Andretti at 240 mph and no one knew. CART needs to gain personality. and doesnt have to do it at the expense of technology.

 

JPM has the talent, no question. He will win a world championship, many times over. He may have to wait until Michael retires, however.

Michael really is the best driver out there. Even when Ferrari was definitely NOT the best car out there, he was obviously something special. He took the fight for the 1997 title down to the last race, and was DQ'd for hitting JV intentionally. In either 1995 or 1996 in Spain, not a track known for its overtaking opportunities, he put in what many consider to be the best drive in modern F1 history, simply because his car was just a dog.

Michael will score points in anything. He is good at preserving the car...not quite on the level of Alain Prost, but almost. In a Williams, Michael would have probably still have won at least one of his last three titles.

 

Yea, let's dumb down technology just because it's easier for people to understand. No way. Racing began as a contest between drivers and cars to see who could push the limits the best. It didnt' attempt to attract tens of thousands of fans in an oversized football stadium. Real racing is about pushing limits. That will never change. nascar's marketing isn't brilliant...it's fans are just less intelligent on average than your F1 or CART fan. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's the best thing in the world. Hitler was very popular in Germany at one point too. nascar's marketing has nothing to do with how important the cars or drivers are in the world of motorsports. How many nascar drivers move up to F1? How many F1 drivers move down to nascar? F1 is arguably the pinnacle of auto racing and nascar has nothing to do with the series. Look at who participates in F1...Ferrari, McLaren, BMW, Honda, Mercedes...these are all high performance manufacturers that shape the future of what we drive on the street. nascar gives us a new Dodge, Chevy, Ford, or Pontiac. Whew! Cutting edge! When is Pointiac going to figure out that all of that plastic **** all over the sides of all of their cars is just plain freakin ugly? Did those engineers even take one class in styling or care to scan the market to see what people like? How can anyone expect the domestics to make waves when their R&D consists of restrictor plate pushrod behemoths?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to like and watch nascar, I'm just saying that nascar is certainly an inconsequential series related to the rest of the world of motorsports. nascar is off on its own tangent and while perhaps it's good at what it does, remember that mullets were in style at one time too.


[Modified by F1HONDA, 10:36 PM 12/23/2002]

 

I hope my dissertation committee members don't find out how dumb I actually am...

K

 

Don't forget, Toyota has already started down the path of fielding an entry into Nascar and should have a truck series entry soon.

 

And they already sponsor some funny cars (utilizing some dinosaur hemi-engine technology from the stone ages) in the NHRA!

 

Celica

 

1. Standing starts are more exciting to watch. I'm all for it.


3. If you take Michael and put him in a car that normally runs in the back of the pack, you would see him move the car up the finishing order almost immediately. But if you don't allow the team to make changes to the car, he can only take it so far.

However, if you give the team the same budget as Ferrari, and you let Michael work his magic with his crew, by testing, and developing a relationship where the team is driven to help Michael succeed, then I think he could bring that team to the top.

On the other hand, you give Ferrari a mid-pack driver, or even worse, a driver that the team doesn't feel motivated to work for, and I don't think they would remain on top. You need the chemistry between driver and team to make it work.

Michael has many elements that make him a great driver. One is his driving skill, but another is his charisma.

On a side note, a friend and I were discussing F1 vs. NASCAR, and he told me a rumor he had heard that put me on the floor rolling. He said there was a rumor that Michael had signed an 8 race contract with one of the leading NASCAR teams for 2003.