I tried doing a search on Shock Piston size but no luck.. and if it makes an ultimate difference if X shock is 36mm.. vs Y shock that is 40mm? and if anyone has knows a site or link that shows all Piston sizes for most shocks and aftermarket Coilovers
sorry if I am using the word "Piston" incorrectly..any help will be appreciated


[Modified by IM ALL BOB, 12:46 PM 12/21/2002]

 

Go to this link and read, the Phantom is Joe Chung builder and one of the drivers of the worlds fastest autocross car. And swift db1, is Alex Chiu who placed 5th in C/M at the Solo Nationals.


http://www.vcmc.ca/cgi-bin/ultimateb...=2&t=000559&p=





[Modified by DB1-R81, 1:31 PM 12/21/2002]

 

If you are asking questions like this you aren't qualified to assess answers.

No - piston size needn't matter. You can have giant bodies with giant pistons and if the valving isn't right for the application you're just as screwed up. And "right" valving is a figure of speech, nothing more.

Some manufacturers will tell you that shaft diameter matters because you displace more fluid for a given length of shaft travel. When you can play with motion ratio you generally go for more shaft displacement for a given length of wheel travel. But the benefits of such things are seen in very short travel applications unlike typical production based cars where we don't typically have trouble generating velocity and force when we want it.

The topic of dampers in general is beyond the scope of what can be addressed on a board like this. If you're really interested get an engineering degree and go to work for an auto manufacturer or a racing team and specialize in dampers. If your goal is enough practical knowledge to make in informed purchase then forget it - you can't (and if you think you are you're fooling yourself). Pick someone who is successfully using something commonly available and serviceable and copy them.

Professional racing teams burn up piles of money on testing programs aimed at getting more grip thru damper optimization. Every track, car, driver, and day produces different requirements.

You can quit now, or you can keep going....the only difference will be how much time you wasted.

Scott, who doesn't think you'll get any better advice on the subject...

 

Thanks dB1-R81 for the link

Thank you scott for your response..Yes I know I lack the understanding of how piston size would matter..Its just that I've seen older posts where they it seemed that people always says get this x coilover over Y coilover.. becuase the piston size is much larger..and I will probably have to choose a system that might or might not meet my needs


[Modified by IM ALL BOB, 1:49 PM 12/21/2002]

 

One of the most notable features of this hobby is "belief".

I can assure you that your needs can be met by at least several different damper manufacturers (unless you have needs that are radically different from most of ours).

Whether you "believe" that your choice meets your needs is up to you.

Copying the successful is the most powerful reassurance your decision will get.

Scott, who's not just giving advice....I'm sharing my solution to similar problems...

 

I am slightly bothered by advising someone to "believe", follow someone elses success and be done with it. It's not that I don't agree with what you stated, but I never think that one should limit their knowledge on anything. I understand that a person purchases the wrong equipment for the wrong task due to a misunderstanding of their own needs, but I don't think that one should rely solely on the success of others, without learning something for themselves. We can all probably guess that the topic creator means "Will shocks with a large piston make my car handle better," but I think that we should give him all sides of the story: the practical side (Scott handled that), and the scientific side (Marc's link handled that to an extent).

The problem is that I interpret this as "how this works" (shock piston diamter vs. shaft movement etc), not "what works". I don't see the problem with implementing scientific knowledge into a decision. Maybe I'm misinterpreting the message.

I'm working on a mechanical engineering degree and a physics degree and I plan (or hope) to work as an engineer for an automotive racing team. I know this isn't a physics board. I'm just annoyed that some people don't care to know what's happening around them ==> the curse of a physicist/engineer.

I'm not even working yet, and I'm already a nerd...damn.
Well, sorry for getting off topic.

 

Chris,

I don't disagree with your qualified disagreement with me.

Saying what I meant a little more clearly: you can learn an awful lot before you realize how little you've learned.

Dampers are extremely difficult to learn about and understand. For someone at the low end of the learning curve an informed decision is well beyond the horizon. Typically one fundamental question is followed by many more, and none really contribute to an informed purchasing decision in most cases. What is offered up as "informed" opinion is usually upon closer examination "belief" - all too often the result of the best job of selling they were exposed to. The example of a successful application is one of the few things I am willing to believe in.

Problem as I see it is that most people don't know how much work it takes to know much about dampers. If they had any idea up front, they'd take my advice gladly.

Scott, who's got nothing against wanting to know or knowing....the "curse" is the joke that's played out when after a ton of trouble you realize you still don't really know anything practically useful....

 

Scott,

A hidden intention behind my argument is that I enjoy reading your technical digressions and I was hoping for one regarding this question. When it did not occur, I grew bitter and created polite arguments to slowly annoy everyone.

The real problem for me is that I am a physics student about to transform to an engineering student (dual degree program). I have an ideal that is hard to break, and I am having a hard time adapting to an engineering viewpoint: It's not how much you know, but how you apply what little you do know. I imagine that automotive engineering takes that to another level (add another level for racing).

It's new territory for me, and I'm trying to get used to it.

Chris, who's going to take dampers, slap them in the face, and understand everything about them even if it kills him; or much worse, gets him nowhere...

Edit: spelling issues


[Modified by GSpeedR, 6:42 PM 12/21/2002]

 

I would chime in by saying that, from what I have seen evidence of Scott wanting to understand, he is no dumbass "just tell me what to buy" racer. I think he is being appropriately pragmatic about the return on investment where efforts to really understand dampers are concerned - and I would also respectfully agree with him in his assessment.

A dangerous manifestation of "knowledge (as opposed to "belief") is the oversimplification of extremely complex issues, and race cars are full of opportunities to do this - stiff front is good, stiff rear is good, more rear bar is good, less rear bar is good, balanced cross weights are good, bigger disks are good, blue brake fluid is good, speedbleeders are good, yadda, yadda, yadda... People WANT to understand but understanding is often WAY to shallow to really make an informed decision, without falling back on belief.

The answer to the original question is not "yes" OR "no" - it is a treatise on damper dynamics and functionality. Luckily we DO have engineers - and will have another one shortly, it looks like - because the kind of knowledge necessary to do really clever stuff is way beyond most of us. The best we can hope for is to learn enough to ask the right questions and implement the solutions that real engineers come up with.

Kirk