Hi,

I'm new to the board, I live in Belgium, the small country making beer and chocolate.....

It is difficult for me to find any ITR divers in my country because in my area (half the country) there are only about 15 ITR sold new since 98'.. I called the Honda Dealers.
Your Board is my only information for my favorite car!!

Who is double-cluthing while driving his ITR? and what is the perfect way to double clutch, so I do not damage may clutch or tranny in learning, just want to prevent any wear to the tranny?

Thanx!!
Sammy
ITR '98 #1020

 

Welcome, someone on here will give you a good explanation shortly...Id tell you, but i cant really say it in words...maybe if you buy me a ticket to your place i can show you in person

EDIT: do you mean double clutching or Rev matching while downshifting?


[Modified by Rguy, 3:09 PM 12/15/2002]

 

can someone describe the heel-toe process. i think I know it, but just to clarify...

 

Maybe he means this...

Say your going 55mph, and you dont want to drop into 2nd gear because there isnt enough gear left... so you go to 3rd, punch the gas, and quickly push clutch in and release....

maybe hes talking about that?

 

Heel-toe = Rev matching while downshifting?
I kind of tried, bud find the pedals of the ITR not well placed for Heel-Toe or is it just me? I find the Acc padel to deep...

 

how to heel-toe downshift - http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving..._heeltoe.lasso

 

Thanx for the link!!

So when I see it right, you guys only do rev-matching and not double-clutching?

 

I only double clutch when I am at a stop and my gears(like 1st or reverse) won't engage. I guessed I killed my syncros somehow, then again I am not the only ITR owner that has this problem.

 

Double clutching is when you push the clutch in to take the car out of gear, release the clutch, then press the clutch again to place car back into another gear.

vroom,clutch in,shift out of gear,(car in neutral),clutch back in, shift next gear, vroom
HTH

 

Does Double-clutching (and-or rev-matching) really save your clutch and tranny from excessive wear?

 

Ah, the question I have been waiting for! I just took BM-style video footage of single and double clutching in my race car at last weekend's race. I was going to post them as a visual aid so that people could see an example. Still have to capture and encode the footage though.

 

I'm looking forward for your vids! finally the visual aid I (and many others I think) were looking for!

 

Yep. Welcome to H-T.

 

double clutching in my opinion just wears the clutch assembly more, you use it 2x instead... just shift slower if concerned about tranny wear. Every gear have syncros (except reverse).

 

so far pretty much everyone is wrong....

Double clutching
----------------------
Used in race cars which don't have synchros. Used to match the car's transmission speed to that of the engine on a downshift.
1)clutch in ----> shift to neutral
2)clutch out -----> blip throttle
3)clutch in -----> shift to lower gear
4)clutch out ... you are now in the lower gear

Our R's have synchros though that are designed so downshifts can be made without getting a crazy jerky feeling...........double clutchign is not neccessary.

Rev matching is sufficient unless you are **** about wearing out your synchros



[Modified by 01-1293, 5:09 PM 12/15/2002]

 

maybe just me, but i don't see a difference in down or up shifting, if transmission has no synchros, it would help just as much to double clutch on upshift or downshift or shifts to any gear..

1. the whole point is to press the clutch in to get out of the gear
2. press clutch to get into the gear.

regular driving with common sence is all that needed with synchros, avoid missing gears/grinds, high rpm launches from stop, upshifting fast while skipping gears.

 

So when I get it right,

Double-Clutching is of no use and Rev-Matching helps destressing the clutch and tranny...
Or do most of ITR drivers don't thing about this... ans just shift.....with respect for the tranny offcourse..

 

So much misinformation here...

Double clutching as it applies to our tranny is useful in minimizing synchro wear. It can be done effectively both upshifting and downshifting but for all practical purposes is only used for downshifting.

Speaking from a road racing perspective you will never double-clutch upshift as you'd be off the gas for too long. But during braking, while heel-toeing, a doubleclutch downshift can be exectued. I do this on the track.

Steps:
1) Brake for turn
2) Push in (disengage) clutch
3) Shift into neutral while doing this (optimally before the clutch is even on the floor as there is normaly a high engagement)
4) Release (engage) clutch pedal
5) Heel-Toe and rev match for next gear
6) AFTER desired rpm is met, push in (disengage) clutch and shift into lower gear
7) Let out (engage clutch) and throttle when ready.

This is all done in one quick sequence that is tough to learn at first, but I'm getting pretty proficient at it by practicing on the street in my beater (damn EF's have awkward ratios)

The quicker you can do # 5-6-7 the more smoothly the gear will engage and the less wear you will put on your synchros.

HTH

 

Good info sack. I agree with you. I agree with the other 4-step process as well.

Here's my video. I made this thing because I'm tired of people saying that it takes too long. It doesn't. There are two clips shown. The first is single clutch, the second is double clutch. It is in QuickTime.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/we...MxeTU0MQ%3D%3D




[Modified by Gansan, 7:41 PM 12/15/2002]

 

I think the main reason you don't need to double-clutch an up-shift is because you catch the correct rpm for the shift as the motor is revving down.

 

Excellent illustration!

 

heel-toeing is a techneque used when you need to brake and downshift at the same time. Normally that would take take 3 feet, one to brake, one to push clutch and one to blip gas. In my Snow video http://cs.widener.edu/~epanek/Snow%20fun.mpg I have a small clip of me heel-toe down shifting. It's actually more "toe-toe" because there is no room to use your heel on the gas if you have size 14 feet

Also here is a video with an example of Derick Bell doing REAL (go figure, he IS a pro driver) heel-toe downshifting. http://cs.widener.edu/~epanek/A1_Ring.avi

I hope that helps you understand a little better.


[Modified by Eluder200K, 4:17 AM 12/16/2002]


[Modified by Eluder200K, 4:18 AM 12/16/2002]

 

Welcome neighbor!!!
Post some pictures of your car....
Are you planning to take the car to the track (circuit)? I've been to Zolder and Spa.

Actually, do you want to know what double clutching is or heel and toe rev matching?
A lot of people mix these things up..

There are 4 possibilities:
- Rev matching without heel and toe (to ease on the clutch)
- Rev matching with heel and toe (same as the above but faster)

- Double clutching without heel and toe (to ease on the synchros)
- Double clutching with heel and toe (same as the above but faster)

The first video only shows rev matching with heel and toe not double clutching.




[Modified by DutchITR1689, 1:47 PM 12/16/2002]

 

I prefer granny shifting myself

 

Careful, you might blow the welds on the intake.

hahaha, what a bad movie