Well,

we finally took the head off my shot engine....

To make a long story short:
two of the Crower valvesprings broke last week....
One intake valve dropped into the 1st cylinder and destroyed the piston, sleeve and rod.
Further it hit the valve-mount and cut a 5mm deep hole between the valves.. The metal pieces had been pushed into the intake manifold and were sucked into the 3rd cylinder, where they caused damage at piston and cylinder....
The rockers are damaged too, oil has been pressed throug the header into the cat.
We found metal pieces everytwhere in the intake manifold, even the throttle-body was filled with them

Just the cams are fine....The quality of JUN.

I don`t now why this has happened, but I think because I used Crower springs with JUN2 cams, though I was told they are of the same spec. Even JUNUSA did not tell me there should be a problem.

In the end, I need a new block with rods and pistons and a new head without cams..

Now my question:
I want to continue running the JUN stage 2, but all that`s left to me is the stock valvetrain... Is it dangerous to run those cams with a stock valvetrain with stock-redline ? Or higher redline ? Infos to stage 2 are very rare.

This engine shot will cost more money than I own.. So I don`t want any risk in the future on my side...

 

that's terrible! sorry to hear that horror story, best of luck to ya! I've heard that anything over stage 1 needs an upgraded valvetrain...why not just go with juns valvetrain to go along nicely with the camshafts. keep us updated on how things go, hopefully it's not too much of a headache

 

Sorry to hear that. I lost my B16 stroker (1.9) to the same thing, failed valvesprings, piston to valve contact, destroyed the block. Even with an ITR valvetrain, it's suggested that you upgrade when using Jun stage 2's, even if you're just taking it to the stock redline. Better to be safe than sorry, again.

 

Same thing happened to TypeR_126 on his '97 itr...toda B cams and crower valve springs, spring broke, dropped valve, piston went, so did the head

Austin

 

hmm....another crower horor story....sorry bout that.....


mental note....stay da heck away from crower!

 

I guess i wont get those springs..........that is a mess i wouldn't want to deal with....damn

 

damn...i'm looking into valve springs and i guess you guys would say you wouldn't use crower anyone huh?

sorry to hear about the engine.

 

I'd say to be safe, use the JUN valvesprings with the JUN cams.

 

I ran Toda B's on a stock valvetrain for almost 6k miles. I was just careful to stay out of the rev limiter.

 

crower = junk.

stay away , sorry for your loss.

 

Sven, what was your highest redline? Who did the install shop? I heard it is possible to put the springs on wrong specs......to stiff.

Hm, I am scared, I run crower springs and retainers for almost 1 year now. I thougth all the Crower springs are made by Eibach....and Eibach is

 

Sorry about the damage. I have a JUN II intake cam wth stock valve train and no problems. About 2,000 miles on it so far. Others have done the same with the JUN II's and Toda B's.

Wouldn't want to run anything any bigger though. You might want to check out the Portflow springs and pair them with new ITR springs.

Just a thought. Would it be worth checking the cams for cracks by x-ray or Magnaflux(sp)? Just to make sure they don't break later.

John

 

dont use jun valvesprings. use toda
only use jun if you take the time to check install height and machine everything
so that its proper. otherwise jun springs WILL bind

 

What is confusing me on the install high...how to install them with different hights? There is only one way to install it...isnt it like this?!


[Modified by austrian type-R, 10:06 AM 12/13/2002]

 

the part of the head that the spring seat sits on is different with each head
due to machining tolerances. if its higher, it compresses the spring more
giving you less travel before the spring binds. the jun springs bind JUST after
12mm so its very important to check the height that the spring sits at when
the valve is fully closed. toda springs have a much greater travel before binding
so its not as important to check install height when using smaller lift cams.
does that make sense?

also its important to know that all gsr heads have a higher seat than b16a heads

 

thas why im using JUN valvetrain with my JUN cams

 

So, I guess it is fine with my crower springs and since my head is stock (except milled a bit). I mean on how much tolerance are we talking? 0.008mm or something. Is that enough to make a spring bend, I doubt, but then again, what do I know

 

My highest redline had been 9200rpm but I used stock ECU the last 6 months...

Crower springs.... hmm...
It seems I`m not the only one with a story like that.

Question to the US-members:
I`m planning to buy the parts in the US by finding a member of the armed forces in Germany, who is kind enough to order block and head.. The international Nato contract sais: No tax for Nato soldiers, as far as I know.

The b18c5 runs with less compression than our engines (10,6:1 USDM, 11:1 JDM/Euro).
Are you running different pistons or can I find the reason for the less compression somewhere in the head ??

 

different pistons

 

seems like life picks out the worst for me these days...

So that means the head has to milled a little bit, right ?

 

the difference if i remember correctly is around 0.015 inches which is about .3-.4mm
and the spring doesnt bend but when it binds the coils endure a lot of stress and
cause them to fail from fatigue very quickly since the cam is essentially compressing
the coils against each other.

 

or change to different pistons. either way, i wouldnt sweat .5
if you are going to change the pistons, go to CTR

 

I would go with usdm pistons...mill the head more, since the quench-area of the B18C5/6 is not that good. Get out about 12.3:1 cr and is fine, especially when you install the JUNs again, more cr is better with agrressive cams.

Better quench area, engine is more knock resistance.

 

Steve, you might run into warranty issues if you do that. When my cam broke, I was bluntly told that if I was using any other valve spring besides JUN, there would be no warranty.

 

dammit...not the kinda info I wanted to hear. I guess Ill be lookin into some new springs soon.