Am I reading this wrong, or does King Motorsports say that a mugen header and twinloop exhaust bumps you over 200WHP?

http://www.kingmotorsports.com/images/dyno/b18c.gif

I've got some extra cash from selling my old car, and I can't really decide what to get. I'm basically looking to build a foundation for some mild engine mods down the road. I'm using the car mainly for daily driving. Is the mugen setup pretty decent, or are there better setups for less money? (I've already got a AEM CAI and a Apexi VAFC)

I think the only person I've seen on these boards who has a full mugen setup is EPGONZALEZ... and it makes me wonder if no one goes mugen because it sucks, or because it's too expensive? If you get what you pay for is true, then mugen must be the fookin' best because it's so expensive.

What do you guys think?

 

the twinloop is worth the price
but there are comparable headers out there for less

 

Mugen is some of the best you can buy, but for the amount mugen costs, go with a full hytech exhaust. When tuned, you can gain very considerable midrange and 20+whp on the top end. Search for a few dyno charts of before and after.

 

Since I bought everything piece by piece, this wasn't a realistic option but ...

If you're going to spend 2K on an exhaust setup in one shot, you might as well look into a SMSP or Hytech setup.

 

Brian (his h-t username) makes 180+ whp with mugen i/h/e. That's *about* 20+ whp over stock. Hopefully he doesn't mind me saying so....

Mugen stuff is top-notch and make good power. I give it a

 

Well with the mugen exhaust setup and some toda B's would I be pushing 200+ with some tuning?

 

What's the big deal with 200+ whp??

I currently am at 175 whp and WOW. what a difference from stock. I'm tuning this weekend and hope to be at 180-182. More importantly, I hope to gain some serious hp/tq in the mid range, where I lose power before a GIANT power spike when vtec kicks in. I hope that make a 10 (or more) HP AND TQ gain in the midrange. I'd say that is more important than adding 5 whp solely up to.

There's nothing special about 200+ WHP, IMO. If that is your goal, that is fine, but i ask: why? What is so significant about 200 whp?

It's not all peak HP. It's area under the curve. The more area, the more useable all this power is. Mugen 4-2-1, mugen intake and twinloop with either the mugen ecu or a vafc (or hondata, powerfc, etc) would probably give you the most useable power, if you are going to go Mugen. The 4-2-1 makes mad mid range power. Ausmith has one, ask him about it.

I wouldn't be concerned with 200 whp, just making big gains in the mid range and high range. You'd be suprised what an added 20 whp can do to a 2600lb car.


[Modified by Chris N, 3:12 PM 12/9/2002]

 

you said in your original post the you were gonna have a mild setup

i would hardly call toda bs "mild"
and no you would not push 200+ with the bs and twinloop

toda bs are not plug and play

 

0wnEd!!!

 

*shrug* 200 just seems like a good number Is there a way you can either modify the mugen intake or the R's AC system to allow both to co-exist? According to King's site the mugen intake is for R's without A/C... I'll be damned if I'm going to remove my A/C!!

And what makes it better than my current AEM CAI setup? Isn't the mugen intake just a glorified short-ram?

 

Almost forgot. B's require a new valvetrain if you plan to rev higher, which is where the B's make their best power. This means a new ecu and a good deal of tuning. This setup is not very mild. It is streetable, sure, but its not just as easy as popping everything in and poof! there's 200whp. What are your plans for this car? Daily driven, some track? no track?

 

J00 can bend the AC lines and the m00gen will fit.

IMO, Run a HyTech or SMSP header, exhaust and whatever cat/test pipe you want.

 

Mugen intake makes mad power over all other intakes. I don't have a graph, but someone does....

It is not a glorified short ram, and it CAN coexist with A/c. You just have to 'reroute' or bend the A/C lines that sit below the stock airbox.

Toda B's, valvetrain, hondata, mugen 4-2-1/4-1, twinloop, mugen intake = $4000+

If you want to go to the track - track pads, fluid, wheels/tires, helmet. There's another $1000-$2000 or more if you get Big $ wheels/tires.

I'll settle for my ~$2000-$2200 budget and 180-185 whp and no hassles associated with timing belts snapping and the increased maintenance necessary for the B's, especially in our very tempermental chicago weather.


[Modified by Chris N, 3:21 PM 12/9/2002]

 

mugen header isnt worth it neither is there exhuast.

 

Wow, that's one informative response.

Exactly what's this based on anyway?

 

I've got a Mugen cat-back for sale for $500 + shipping.

 

I made 178 whp with just Mugen I/H and 183 with the full I/H/E. This is a very nice setup but for the money I wouldn't be surprised if a system from SMSP or Hitech made more power. FWIW

 

 

I like Mugen My dyno chart on the link below

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=317285

Mattj

 

The Mugen header+exhaust build quality is second to none. Also you are going to have a very nice and clean exhaust tone. You won't have to worry about getting pulled over every time you drive to the store. Sure there are some setup's out there that will produce more power, but they are going to be custom setup's like Hytech, or SMPS. I would be happy with any of the above three mentioned.

I have a handfull of mugen products on my ITR and each one of them have performed flawlessly. I want to add more down the road also.

 

SMS is nice. I sent my header and exhaust to Dave so he could cut them up...in hindsight, I should have just bought his full system.

If you went with full Mugen, would you be 2.5" all the way through? I am not sure. If not...it would be hard to justify spending 2K on something that still had bottlenecks.

 

i personally do not like the twinloop. i feel that you can get a higher flowing exhaust with the amount you pay for a twinloop. just my $.02

 

Yeah the HyTech full system including header and renault cat would be on the top of my list. For a cheaper setup, a JDM header, and the new T1R exhuast thats coming out (or maybe already has?).

 

Mugen is not 2.5" and has a few bottlenecks. It is a nice system if you like Mugen products and dont plan on modifying the engine more than I/H/E.

 

George loves SMSP. But, I don't understand why he's hinting that Mugen is an overpriced, and inferior system. I mean, we could say the same thing about SMSP being a product that you'd buy if money is "burnign a hole in your pocket." (Afterall, there's Hytech that performed "better" than SMSP.)

IMHO, there is nothing wrong with Mugen setup. It's very meticulously crafted for B18C5 engine and even though it doesn't produce the highest WHP number, it's worth every penny. For some things (workmanship) cannot be justified by dyno sheet alone.