[EDIT]: Injetcors now in see latest post...

OK I'm going to install some 440cc injectors on my ITR and I'm a bit paranoid about the wiring.

Does it matter which way the wires go! The wire clips I have just has two black wires with no indication as to which is the constant 12v feed and which is the switched side. I'm assuming they will just wire up the same as the stock ones, someone reassure me.

Suplementary question:
Will I need a bigger fuel pump? I'm on standard cams at the moment but I am hitting 100% duty cycle at high rpm and sometimes on acceleration, with current mods. A friend has a similarly modded ITR and was also hitting 100%, he put it on a rolling road but even though it was rich at the top end any leaning out cause less power (he was unable to richen up to test how that effected it though)

I should only be hitting 50-60% duty cycle with these injectors in, so I am wondering if I need a pump yet or will I need one when I get bigs cams next year (JUN 3/TODA B/Stunk2 stg2 whatever I get)??


[Modified by RICHJ, 2:02 PM 11/30/2002]

 

did you get peak and holds? is that why your wiring ?

 

why are you running such huge injectors?

 

Because the RC injectors are not a direct fit into the standard plugs, the injectors are saturated like the standard ITR ones.

Future proofing

Originally I was unsure whether is was going to go FI or NA, so I got 440cc ones as they should be big enough to cope with pretty much anything I will throw at them. I have the PowerFC installed which has a nice injector multiplier feature which ment it didn't really matter what size I got ans the cost between 310cc, 370cc and 440cc RC injector was small.

 

I believe that the clips do have a polarity on them...isn't one black with a yellow stripe? I can't remember when I did mine, but I didn't have an issue when I installed the 440's when I had the Toda setup...

Austin

 

Both are black on mine (just checked again for any signs), the wires on the original clips have one black/yellow wire and a coloured one (yellow, blue, red and brown I think) I was going to wire them up left original wire to left wire on clip, right to right, but then got paranoid, so posted here.

 

i believe you will also need hondata for such huge injectors , im running Toda Spec D on mine and 270cc seem enough .but later i may run 440cc (with hondata ) will cut down my MPG doh

 

haha I thought my 440s were gonna be overkill, and I have serious work done to my motor!!! atleast u wont have to worry about running lean hopefully you can tune some of the fuel out with the PowerFC. good luck

 

Yes the PowerFC has a nice feature where you can put in the comparative size of the replacement injectors and reduces the duty cycle:

e.g. replace 240cc injectors with 440cc you need 54.5% of the injector pulse to get the same fuel delivered by the original injectors, just by putting in a couple of figures on one of the screens (injector). You can also tune between the original and replacement injectors lag time (in100ths of a ms), but I don't have figures for either so cant do that bit.

Should give enough to get it going, but I suspect I will need a bit of fine tuning.

Luckly I am not looking to tune in any additional parts, just get the same parts working with the bigger injectors (and maybe getting as bit more fuel in up top later).


[Modified by RICHJ, 5:33 PM 11/18/2002]

 

DO you run standard fuel pressure???

 

Im no expert on fuel delivery, but from what I heard, if you dont run atleast standard fuel pressure(especially on larger injectors), you will not get the right "misting effect" of the fuel as its delivered to the chamber, therefore, improper combustion and evidentally lack of power. someone correct me if Im wrong.

 

I intend to run standard pressure, just wondering if Spoon1 was getting enough fuel on those TODA cams with 270cc and standard fuel pressure or f he was bumping it up a bit.

 

Of cause no-one has been able to answer my question yet.

OK if i get them the wrong way round will i screw the injectors or will they just not work!

 

i have a digram for those clips then , i thought you only had to convert to those if they were peak and hold, i got clips and res box from an older CRX, ill see if i can scan the schematic i have for mine.

 

If you got RC clip it doesn't matter which wire goes where.Both wire being black, it would be hard to say "the black wire with the yellow and the other black with the green" . Just make sure to cut and connect one injectors at a time so you don't get mixed up and connect one wire of #2 injectors with one from #3 injectors.
I had no problem installing my 310 cc/min injectors.

Also, from memory of another thread about 440 cc/min injectors,I am really not sure you will be able to run 440 cc/min injectors with stock camshafts. You wont be able to lean out the idle enought to make it run properly. You should wait to install them until you get bigger camshafts IMO


[Modified by JPP, 2:11 PM 11/18/2002]

 

I will give them a try, if I can't lean out the idle enought, I can always swap the old ones back in. Hopefully the PowerFC can sort it.


[Modified by RICHJ, 7:39 PM 11/18/2002]

 

OK I have installed the RC 440cc injectors and wired them in and all is working perfectly, I set the PowerFC all the Injector adjustments to 52% under the Settings|Injectors (why are there 6 settings?).

Anyway it was a but rough when I first started it, I'm not sure if it needs the water temp enrichment adjusting or if it was just the fuel getting to the injectors after I had put the rail back on. Soon settled down but I will check again tomorrow when the engine is cold again.

Took it out and the O2 sensor readings were a little high on the FCCommander under the etc|sensor check (about 0.97v instead of 0.82-0.87v it was with the old injectors), so I reduced the Injector adjustments to 49% (after a couple of trys) and now the O2 sensor voltage is around the 0.82-0.87v again, not the perfect way to tune but means the A/F similar to what it was with the ITR injectors.

Anyway after a few runs at WOT upto aboput 8800rpm (adjusted on the PowerFC), I found that it was getting to 54% duty which pretty much means the old injectors were delivering about 8% short of what the ECU wanted (unless my math is wonky) as they were maxed out at 100% over 8400rpm ebfoer

 

Correct me if I'm wrong.. but isn't .82-.87v on the lean side? I thought you should be around .90-.92 for a decent a/f ratio via tuning off the O2 voltage. Anyone?

 

I personally wouldnt trust the oem o2 sensor, why risk it, just fork out the money to throw your car on a dyno.....if you are cheap (i was for a long time) just throw in a new set of plugs, and run the car WOT for a little bit, pull them and look at them, thats the best indication. btw us turbo guys tune the 440's to around -40% w/ a target of ~12.1 or so.....

 

i've been running 370cc injectors for a while along with fuel pressure regulator on stock cams, i think at some point in 2xx whp point, maybe 220whp ,a fuel pump should be added.

as far as current fuel pressure, i run 40-44 psi, but going to raise it up once have the need for fuel pump.

 

This could be the case, but I have been running the PowerFC for about 20K miles and it has always read between 0.82-0.87v at WOT, changed the plugs recently and they looked perfect. I just set up the new injectors so they were giving the same reading as the old ITR ones. It could be that my O2 sensor is producing a lower voltage than it should be, but I have "tuned" it to the voltage that is has run perfectly on for 20K miles I can't see there being much of a problem

 

I did that two weeks ago with some new plugs and the original injectors and they were fine (with the O2 sensor readingon the FCCommander reading 0.82-0.87), I will do the same tomorrow with the new injectors, I am not tuning for power at the moment just getting everything on the car for when the cams go on.

 

WTF??? Sorry I run 720's on stock cams.

 

And why the hell would you want to run 720 cc/min injectors on a stock camshafts, NA b18c5 engine ???

 

Why not? And it all depends on the engine management you have.....PFC allows your run any sized injector you want and idle and run like stock.