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$500 B16 Swap; so stoked! This video covers the leakdown results on my 90 Si, why I prefer B over K, and a short history of the B16 to help the uninitiated understand why I'm so friggin geeked.
This is a brand new channel; if you've seen my civic videos before you're likely not subscribed to this one; in the next episode I'll inspect the engine, scope the bores, and do a leakdown test to determine if I can just send this thing!
Okay guys, so I'll have an upcoming video documenting most of this, but I need some tips/tricks right away from the pros. I typically know my way around engines, but.... the ... circumstances that resulted in my ownership of this engine are sketchy. Basically, my buddy messaged me a link to a FB marketplace post, with the text "GO. NOWWWW". It was a B16 w Trans, for $500. Now... we know the prices of pretty much any B-series has gone up quite bit recently, I'm seeing running/decent swaps going for $2500-3500 (ish), so I jumped on this and contacted the guy.
Right off the bat, the location was sort of in a sketchy part of Milwaukee, and it was 9pm, but DEALS TO BE HAD, so I went for it. The seller had pretty poor English, joined facebook a few months ago, and only had 4 friends. I think he was Hmung or Vietnamese? Idk, nice guy in person, but the details were scarce. He said it was his friends car, rear ended, sitting in their apartment lot, landlord got pissed and said car has to go, so they pulled the motor and junked the car. He just said "yes honda" in terms of what the car is. The block is labled B16A2 so I googled that already. I checked the stamping on the block when I got there to make sure it was really a B16, and yeah, so I gave him $500 and he puleld it out of the backseat of his civic, and we threw it into the hatch of my Insight (lol).
I got it home and out of the car, and today I started looking at it in more detail. Here's the biggest thing: All the spark plugs are out of this thing, and I don't know how long it's been like that. The valve cover is also not bolted down. I looked down the spark plug holes, and I don't see any obvious damage, but in one cylinder hole, I see a brass insert from what appears to be the end of a compression/leakdown tester hose. Hmmm.
Originally, I was going to get this on the engine stand, and do a leakdown to asses if it needs rings, valve guides/job, etc. If everything was within spec, I was going to clean it up and run it as is.
However.... with the spark plugs being out, and the cylinders being exposed, I am a little hesitant to turn the engine over by hand. If there's a bunch of **** in there, it could gouge cylinder walls. I was told the engine ran well, but I'd like to know for sure otherwise I have to tear it apart. Thoughts?
Last edited by ADDvanced; Feb 5, 2023 at 09:28 AM.
Okay guys, so I'll have an upcoming video documenting most of this, but I need some tips/tricks right away from the pros. I typically know my way around engines, but.... the ... circumstances that resulted in my ownership of this engine are sketchy. Basically, my buddy messaged me a link to a FB marketplace post, with the text "GO. NOWWWW". It was a B16 w Trans, for $500. Now... we know the prices of pretty much any B-series has gone up quite bit recently, I'm seeing running/decent swaps going for $2500-3500 (ish), so I jumped on this and contacted the guy.
Right off the bat, the location was sort of in a sketchy part of Milwaukee, and it was 9pm, but DEALS TO BE HAD, so I went for it. The seller had pretty poor English, joined facebook a few months ago, and only had 4 friends. I think he was Hmung or Vietnamese? Idk, nice guy in person, but the details were scarce. He said it was his friends car, rear ended, sitting in their apartment lot, landlord got pissed and said car has to go, so they pulled the motor and junked the car. He just said "yes honda" in terms of what the car is. The block is labled B16A2 so I googled that already. I checked the stamping on the block when I got there to make sure it was really a B16, and yeah, so I gave him $500 and he puleld it out of the backseat of his civic, and we threw it into the hatch of my Insight (lol).
I got it home and out of the car, and today I started looking at it in more detail. Here's the biggest thing: All the spark plugs are out of this thing, and I don't know how long it's been like that. The valve cover is also not bolted down. I looked down the spark plug holes, and I don't see any obvious damage, but in one cylinder hole, I see a brass insert from what appears to be the end of a compression/leakdown tester hose. Hmmm.
Originally, I was going to get this on the engine stand, and do a leakdown to asses if it needs rings, valve guides/job, etc. If everything was within spec, I was going to clean it up and run it as is.
However.... with the spark plugs being out, and the cylinders being exposed, I am a little hesitant to turn the engine over by hand. If there's a bunch of **** in there, it could gouge cylinder walls. I was told the engine ran well, but I'd like to know for sure otherwise I have to tear it apart. Thoughts?
What you should care about is if the engine has a vin plate or not. B16a2 would be em1 and you'd want to run the vin to make sure it's not stolen. No vin plate means you bought a stolen swap. Otherwise you shouldn't have even mentioned any of that in the beginning.
It's going on the engine stand tomorrow, going to flood the cylinders w something, then flip upside down, let drain, and do a leakdown.
Trans Questions:
The trans that came with is hydro. I've been reading about the cable-hydro conversion kits, but all of them seem to make the left most vent inoperable. Are there any conversion kits that do NOT do this? This car is really close to factory and I'd prefer to keep all the vents working, and I don't mind the cable transmission in there now, not really sure why I would want to bother converting to hydro tbh.
If I stick with cable, that means I need a YS1 trans, correct? Would anything else work? Having trouble finding one.
It's going on the engine stand tomorrow, going to flood the cylinders w something, then flip upside down, let drain, and do a leakdown.
Trans Questions:
The trans that came with is hydro. I've been reading about the cable-hydro conversion kits, but all of them seem to make the left most vent inoperable. Are there any conversion kits that do NOT do this? This car is really close to factory and I'd prefer to keep all the vents working, and I don't mind the cable transmission in there now, not really sure why I would want to bother converting to hydro tbh.
If I stick with cable, that means I need a YS1 trans, correct? Would anything else work? Having trouble finding one.
It operates and feels just like a cable transmission, and uses the same clutch cable. If you are staying with an OE level clutch it will work very well. It bolts in the same place as the slave cylinder and doesn't appear to block off anything.
A full hydro conversion would always feel best, but this works well without any additional modification to the car.
It operates and feels just like a cable transmission, and uses the same clutch cable. If you are staying with an OE level clutch it will work very well. It bolts in the same place as the slave cylinder and doesn't appear to block off anything.
A full hydro conversion would always feel best, but this works well without any additional modification to the car.
best description of the EFBHCL ive seen yet on the interwebs and is exactly what i tell people when they call and ask
Thanks, definitely looking into that, as I want to retain the driver's side vent. All the hydro conversions that have a clutch cylinder seem to require lobotomizing that vent.
Thanks, I'm happy with mine. Only gripe is that it squeaks a little and there is no boot to cover the shift fork.
yeah if you keep the hydro trans hasports conversion is the best you could choose for hydro to cable but yeah there is no boot to cover and left with a hole but what I did is just use a regular boot for the slave cylinder and flip it one way to cover that hole up.
Updated first post with first video on this build, should be old news for anyone here but I wanted to explain to the non-honda people why I'm so stoked.
I saw the #4 leak down issue in your video, have you adjusted the valves yet? Tight valves may cause the valve to be slightly open at TDC. Its worth doing before you take the head off.
(if it was mentioned, sorry I haven't watched the whole video)
A compression test will give you a more complete picture, if you haven't done one yet.
Okay, update after doing some more stuff in the garage tonight, I'll post some pics then hit the hive mind with a lot of questions.
First off, how do I ID the shift linkages? How do I ID the shift linkages? I'm not sure what this swap came out of; goal is to put in my 90 Si Also have no idea what trans this is; ID plate is long gone, and I noticed the boss I am pointing to is snapped; still has some threads? Not sure if this is an issue yet. Friday night, pulling it apart, marking everything so I can put it back together properly, first time inside a Honda engine this far tbh. We have liftoff! I pulled the head because intake valves were not sealing on cylinder #4, still not sure why yet, no broken valve spring or anything. Pistons are pretty carbony, but MAN, the bores look great. X-hatching still visible on all of them, no scuffs, no scratches, nothing. They look/feel flawless, so i guess I'm going to try to leave the block together if possible. I did see some of this nasty buildup near cylinder #1, should I just scrape this out or?
S4c and vin plate means it's a 99-00 si unless you can see through the differential.
X2, confirm the diff but it's likely a EM1 Civic Si S4C. Also, seeing that the VIN plate was removed (they don't easily come off) makes me question the source of this drivetrain.
The linkage is probably from the same - if you feel like welding it can be modified to fit the EF/ED chassis.
The broken boss on the trans is required for the trans mount - how far down do the threads go? You may be able to grind it level and add washers to install the mount. I don't know the best proper long term repair, maybe it can be built up w/ aluminum welds, machined and threaded?
I did see some of this nasty buildup near cylinder #1, should I just scrape this out or?
That just looks like neglected coolant build up. It should be OK, but now you are approaching the point of deciding how far to go in your rebuild - its going to depend on your budget and what you want to do with the engine. A comprehensive rebuild will involve complete disassembly, and sending the block off to the machine shop for hot-tanking and any required work. Same for the head. That starts to add up along with a parts list for seals, rings, bearings, etc.
If you want to get this going soon as and cheaply as possible, I would check and replace some things while its out; BTW I'm no expert by any measure, but I've done plenty of my own engine work and these are the things I'd personally check/replace. I hope it helps, but please research / ask questions if you aren't sure about something.
* Check the head - make sure there wasn't damage causing the Cyl.4 issues
* Check the valve retainers for cracks, make sure the valve seats look good.
* Replace valve seals, o-rings and seals in the head
* If your car has hydraulic LMAs, replace with spring type - the hydraulic ones tend to get noisy
* Take the oil pan off, check/clean debris - metal, gasket material, etc
* Check/clean the oil pump pickup mesh
* Check crank end play
* Check the crank and rod bearings, look for galling/wear
* With the crank girdle out of the way you can also get to the thrust washers - if your crank end play was off you want to replace these
* Replace the front and rear main seals
Dude it was $500 at night in the hood, I also question the source of this swap. I was told it was 'running great' but cyl #4 has no compression, lol.
Yeahhh about that trans, there is definitely not an LSD, you can see the bar. Again, this was a $500 swap. I am kind of doubting it is an Si trans.
Plan is to drop the head off somewhere with a new set of valve springs, and have them go through the head, do a valve job, replace valve seals, etc. and replace the springs. What is the advantage to replacing the spring keepers w titanium? I'll look into the mechanical LMAs, have any advice on what brand?
Actually, question about brands in general. I usually use felpro for gaskets on most other engines, what do people tend to use? I've looked online and I see cheap gasket kits, but I'm not sure about them, esp the headgasket.
THE GOAL HERE is to have a nice budget B16. Coming from a 100% stock D16 so it'll seem like a rocket; not too concerned about making tons of power, but at the same time, the engine is open right now. From what I read, if you throw in CTR pistons, the compression will go up, but then you need to retard the timing a bit so it's a bit of a wash. The current intake I have is gross/corroded, and I see relatively affordable aftermarket ones, but again... would there even be any gains on a relatively stock B16?
I'm looking for easy gains at this point, for minimal investment. This isn't a race car, it's a street car and I have other things to go fast, but if there's something I should "definitely do" for easy power, what should i look for? So many of hte builds I'm finding online are "the ULtIMaTe B16" or something and that's not what I'm trying to do here.
Maybe, guy said the car was hit and sitting for a long time. I can post the serial # here if you want, but I doubt it was stolen. I think it was pulled because cyl #4 is no workie.
Dude it was $500 at night in the hood, I also question the source of this swap. I was told it was 'running great' but cyl #4 has no compression, lol.
Honestly if you aren't worried about it, its not worth dwelling on - its just that between the details in your original post and the removed VIN plate, it does raise some concerns. Without knowing the history of the engine or the guy who sold it, who's to say what the actual story behind it is? It's just as likely that the seller got the engine legitimately for his own project and fell on hard times, as that it was from a stolen and chopped car. That doesn't make it right, or wrong - its just what it is. You personally aren't looking to rip anyone off so I'd leave it at that.
Originally Posted by ADDvanced
Yeahhh about that trans, there is definitely not an LSD, you can see the bar. Again, this was a $500 swap. I am kind of doubting it is an Si trans.
Its definitely an EM1 Si trans, the S4C AFAIK only came in the EM1 Si (open diff) and EK9 (LSD). The B16A2, coupled with the S4C trans w/ VIN plate standoffs tells me that for sure.
Originally Posted by ADDvanced
Plan is to drop the head off somewhere with a new set of valve springs, and have them go through the head, do a valve job, replace valve seals, etc. and replace the springs. What is the advantage to replacing the spring keepers w titanium? I'll look into the mechanical LMAs, have any advice on what brand?
Do you suspect that the springs are worn out? Given that the cylinder bores looked good there may not be a ton of miles on the engine.
Anything titanium is going to reduce weight, but for a budget build would be overkill.
The LMAs from Honda are the way to go - I've heard bad things about Skunk2/Blox LMAs. You can use H series LMAs that require shimming, or B series that are a little more expensive.
Originally Posted by ADDvanced
Actually, question about brands in general. I usually use felpro for gaskets on most other engines, what do people tend to use? I've looked online and I see cheap gasket kits, but I'm not sure about them, esp the headgasket.
Stick with OEM if possible, you can look up all the parts you need on Honda parts sites and at the dealer. It will be worth it in the long run.
Originally Posted by ADDvanced
THE GOAL HERE is to have a nice budget B16. Coming from a 100% stock D16 so it'll seem like a rocket; not too concerned about making tons of power, but at the same time, the engine is open right now. From what I read, if you throw in CTR pistons, the compression will go up, but then you need to retard the timing a bit so it's a bit of a wash. The current intake I have is gross/corroded, and I see relatively affordable aftermarket ones, but again... would there even be any gains on a relatively stock B16?
I'm looking for easy gains at this point, for minimal investment. This isn't a race car, it's a street car and I have other things to go fast, but if there's something I should "definitely do" for easy power, what should i look for? So many of hte builds I'm finding online are "the ULtIMaTe B16" or something and that's not what I'm trying to do here.
You should be able to tear down the intake manifold and have it cleaned by the machine shop when you drop off your head.
The engine will make the car plenty of fun in stock form, personally I'd leave it as-is and just keep it OE for reliability, but I understand the urge to tinker.
Another aspect to think about is engine management - what ECU will you run? You will want to have it tuned if you are changing anything drastically.
CTR pistons will bump up compression to around 12:1, which isn't super high but you'll want to have it tuned professionally.
Easy things to do while the engine is out would be port matching, and a 2 layer headgasket. While its at the machine shop you can have them mill the head a few thousandths to bump up compression.
Dude thank you for the detailed response, I appreciate it. I've done so much reading here but it's all mostly not applicable, some people from 2007 with huge grand plans of building the ULTIMATE BADASS B16 and then everyone shitting on them and arguing to build an LSVtec or something, getting tired of it, 90% of what I read is just useless for me. So again, thank you!
Also, huge thank you to ID'ing the trans, I was just sort of assuming it was a random LS trans. If it is indeed Si, that's HUGELY good news. I want to tear it down before installing it just to inspect the internals, I'm hoping I can maybe swap 5th out for a super tall overdrive type gear if possible but I haven't even googled that yet.
I don't suspect the springs are worn out, it's just that cyl #4 wasn't holding pressure, so I'm assuming a valve took a light hit and is bent or? I don't see any broken valve springs, and I shined a light on the valve and looked from above and didn't see a bad seal... really at a loss as to why that cylinder wasn't sealing on the intake side. I just figured since I have the head off and it sounds like I'm getting a valve job in the future, it'd be a wise move to 'build' the head. If I ever found a deal on a b18 or B20 I could build that and transfer my built head, but as of right now it seems like the B16 short block is in amazing shape, so I'm going to run it.
Thank you for the advice on the LMAs, will look into those and add to my build list.
I'm fine with using OE gaskets but as far as I know there isn't an OEM kit? I'll keep looking but buying them piece meal would cost an assload.
Hey so that website link is awesome, but I'm a little confused, sorry for more newb questions, but when I click "stock B16 everything" it says my CR is: 10.29:1 but when I leave everything but change to CTR pistons I get ... 10.49:1, not 12:1. What gives?
I thought I read that milling the head is not desirable when using CTR pistons/CTR cams, because your piston/valve clearance is already really tight.
Dude thank you for the detailed response, I appreciate it. I've done so much reading here but it's all mostly not applicable, some people from 2007 with huge grand plans of building the ULTIMATE BADASS B16 and then everyone shitting on them and arguing to build an LSVtec or something, getting tired of it, 90% of what I read is just useless for me. So again, thank you!
No problem, I hope it helps. If I ramble its because I don't really get to talk cars anywhere else but here lately, so apologies for that.
Originally Posted by ADDvanced
Also, huge thank you to ID'ing the trans, I was just sort of assuming it was a random LS trans. If it is indeed Si, that's HUGELY good news. I want to tear it down before installing it just to inspect the internals, I'm hoping I can maybe swap 5th out for a super tall overdrive type gear if possible but I haven't even googled that yet.
I have an LSD S4C in my car (same ratios as yours) , and I can tell you it gets around just fine on the highway, little buzzy but it comes with the territory. At 70MPH it's around 4K. The gearing is good but on the backroads here I can never get very far in 3rd gear, I have a N3E ITR trans w/ the 4.7 FD that I'm going to replace it with soon to help with that.
I don't suspect the springs are worn out, it's just that cyl #4 wasn't holding pressure, so I'm assuming a valve took a light hit and is bent or? I don't see any broken valve springs, and I shined a light on the valve and looked from above and didn't see a bad seal... really at a loss as to why that cylinder wasn't sealing on the intake side. I just figured since I have the head off and it sounds like I'm getting a valve job in the future, it'd be a wise move to 'build' the head. If I ever found a deal on a b18 or B20 I could build that and transfer my built head, but as of right now it seems like the B16 short block is in amazing shape, so I'm going to run it.
You'll find out more when you get it to the machine shop, they should be able to figure it out. Its also a possibility that there was carbon buildup or the valves are adjusted too tight, causing your leakdown results.
Originally Posted by ADDvanced
Thank you for the advice on the LMAs, will look into those and add to my build list.
I'm fine with using OE gaskets but as far as I know there isn't an OEM kit? I'll keep looking but buying them piece meal would cost an assload.
Majestic honda has always had good prices and cheap shipping for me. Figure out a part list and you'll have a good idea of what you need and the costs. Fel-Pro isn't bad necessarily, but I've had issues with things like their valve cover gaskets - just poor fitting. I used Fel-Pro when I worked on my D16A6, and it held up fine but I only had it together maybe 20k miles before swapping it out.
Originally Posted by ADDvanced
Hey so that website link is awesome, but I'm a little confused, sorry for more newb questions, but when I click "stock B16 everything" it says my CR is: 10.29:1 but when I leave everything but change to CTR pistons I get ... 10.49:1, not 12:1. What gives?
If you keep the defaults, it should apply to your engine. The CTR pistons are the PCT/B16B pistons.
Originally Posted by ADDvanced
I thought I read that milling the head is not desirable when using CTR pistons/CTR cams, because your piston/valve clearance is already really tight.
Thanks in advance for all the information!
Sorry, I didn't mean to mill and go with CTR pistons - I guess you could but 12:1 is pretty high for a street car already. I was just throwing stuff out there.
Ghetto $500 B16 Build, Where to even start?
This video covers the leakdown results on my 90 Si, why I prefer B over K, and a short history of the B16 to help the uninitiated understand why I'm so friggin geeked.
