Ill start off.

i yanked a prius electric steering column. Going to retro fit it when the season dies down

 

Hot take... Time attack is just qualifying and/or super autox. I kid, i kid... sorta. Its an important skill to learn, but nothing beats wheel to wheel.

Its also weird to me that most race cars dont fit well into time trials/time attack classes... its like they dont want crossover cars and are really okay with building very specific cars for each TT/TA class.

 

I see wheel to wheel as an excuse to not go fast.

Unless youre in a porsche gt3rs

 

I'm not trying to be disparaging, but I see the opposite. Wheel to Wheel racers are trying to go fast, despite some of the hindrances of the environment. Time Attack/Time Trial have a more advantageous environment to measure pure lap time... as it probably should. TT groups are smaller and usually grouped by times (they definitely are in Gridlife)... where race groups are usually grouped by themes. Hell in most race groups there is a 20 second gap per lap from the fastest to slowest classes... thats not the case in TT groups. In my run groups we are lapping back makers (of slower classes) on the second lap.

There is actual proof to back me up. NASA has a Time Trial (time attack) and Super Touring (wheel to wheel) based off the exact same rules... TT6 is equal to ST6, etc. As long as the ST cars arent in a +40 car field, the ST cars will run the same pace orfaster in most if not all classes. From what i have found, even if they are in a large field, the ST cars will be within 5% of the TT cars.

Time attack/Time Trails and Autox are not racing... they are speed competition against a clock and not against an adversary. They generally have rules that favor some sort of car, type of car, drive line configuration, etc. and the biggest budgets with the most research behind them are the most successful. its a different world.. and I believe there is a place for it, for a time, in some peoples motorsports careers.

there are definite skills involved with these speed competitions. generally looking for every 1/10th is important... so the knowledge of data, suspension tuning, alignment, when the car/engine/tires are in the sweet spot (and getting the right spacing to do your run) etc. is imperative. much more so than in wheel to wheel racing. Wheel to wheel racers do a time trail... its literally called "qualifying." We do the same things any time attack driver would do to get the optimal time.

what you guys are missing is the chess match against other drivers for 45 minutes or more... sure you have to manage your car for the 2-3 laps, etc... we have to do it for 5 times longer while physically keeping some behind us (or trying to overtake). A wheel to wheel car is setup differently than a time attack car because the environment is very different. the needs of the drivers are different... the requirements on the car are different... but somehow they will still put down similar times.

 

Ill agree with most youve said besides the teams with big budgets. Ferras quartomy is doing amazing and i think he just has sponsorships. He holds records for a lot of the tracks in America currently

Which tracks do you race at and what lap times do you usually qualify with? I see a lot of the miata spec races and they are generally quite a bit slower. I understand why but just curious about the average times in a wheel to wheel race

 

I don't usually post in this forum.

 

All these depend on the time of year and the time of day/weather... and these are for me personally, my class leaders (Honda Challenge H2) are 1-1.5 seconds faster... the last two national champions for my class have come out of my region FYI.
high 1:24s to low 1:25s at Summit Point
low 2:13s to low 2:16s at VIR

Honda Challenge H2 cars point somewhere between TT4 and TT5 usually... though my car would be closer to TT5 because my chassis is limited by support... i also havent looked at the new rules but i hear my factory drive by wire is taking a penalty now too.

Spec miatas are considered one of the slowest wheel to wheel classes out there. they have a fairly high minimum weight for what they are, they are on springs (not coil overs) with a spec penseke shock, and they run a 205 toyo rr. Spec series are considered a "drivers series" because the cars are built so closely to each other. Even my class is semi spec as they are trying to balance chassis and engine swaps to have an even playing field.

 

okay my role as foil didnt get a lot of folks into this thread to drum up conversation... my apologies. Also if anyone wants to be on a future podcast of mine to represent Time Attack/Time Trails... hit me up.

As a newb to time attack/time trials... outside of my qualifying times... i have some questions (selfishly to improve qualifying)...

Not at the Track:
1. what types of things should we be studying? I'm assuming reading or taking classes on suspension setup, alignment, etc would be helpful
2. How important is sim racing to you? and why?
3. when looking over the rules, where do you find "free" mods in the rules and how would you prioritize building a car to the rules?

At the track but not on track:
1. what type of tools do you guys bring? Alignment stuff i would guess... but how much and what kind? I currently get one digital alignment at the beginning of the year, take notes on it at home, and make adjustments at home and trackside when needed.
2. Generally i hear that the morning sessions are the best sessions for time... what morning prep do you do to make sure you can actually take advantage on the first/second session?
3. how many sets of tires are you brining and how do you rotate them? Some racers have a qualifying set and a race set... but do you have a junk set you throw on when its too hot to get a good time?
4. do you track heat cycles? i know endurance racers dont... they just burn them down and change them... but road racers do and we all very on where we think the sweet spot is.

On Track:
1. what do you prioritize? tire temps, spacing, etc. And how do you actually prioritize them to each other? 1. is the highest X is the lowest priority.
2. I'm assuming bump drafting is frowned upon... i'm pretty sure... though there are some potential advantages if the cars arent in the same class but might be close-ish in times.

 

I dont have much time so ill have to answer in parts

Suspension setup I definitely study. Im not near my driver limit so not a huge focus currently. Brake pads and bias is a big part to study. I use 200 tread ware tires. A052 in my experience the hotter the track surface temps the better. I was just out racing on a cold track and couldnt get confident untill around 10am. I havent got into sim racing yet but definitely study track videos leading up to an event. [/size]

 

My oil drain issues seem to be ok now. No leaks and no fuel issues

 

But how does it do on long sweepers? Go hit some cloverleafs.

 

Yeah hard to find long sweepers around here.


Made some progress on the prius electric column.

The steering yoke from a honda shaft works on the prius shaft so no welding needed there where it meets the pinion

 

I thought you lived in CA? There's plenty of interchanges around.

 

Yea getting to them is risky. Im not in the boonies

 

Come on

 

I drove 45 min just to get to this empty road and it wasnt that empty

 

So you can't find an interchange within a 45 min drive? Kinda hard to believe buddy.

 

Professional Awesome' s podcast today... Racing is for Championships, Time Attack is for track records. I like of line that perspective.

 

Getting closer to getting this electric column to fit. I havent had to cut or weld anything just swap the spindle at the pinion.

Im going to have to shorten the lower shaft and fab a simple bracket to hold a stud for the electric motor.

 

I'm surprised the steering is heavy enough at speed in an EK to justify the expense and weight of installing electric power steering. Our EG endurance car has a manual rack and we feel the steering is too light as it is.

 

What size tires are you running?

 

225/45/15, but with a proper alignment and correct ackermann, tire size does not make that much of a difference, unless you are running a lot of caster. Do you know your caster angle?

 

255 17
tons of caster, i think 5 degrees.

damn near snaps my wrists if it gets a little sideways

 

Just gotta clean up the wiring and shes about done. I might move the controller to a different spot.

This is a power steering rack that is disconnected. I had to use two hands to move the wheels just like this in the garage.
Im hoping this helps me have a smoother control in cornering

 

Nice. I guess we could’ve helped each other out if I found this thread earlier.
I did this swap in my EG.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-...s-eps-3367698/

How is your return to center with the EPAS? I read from above that you have about 5 degrees of caster, what did you use to adjust caster angle?
I currently have almost zero return to center with my EPAS but I haven’t done any alignment yet and I believe EG factory spec for caster is only around 1 degree.