Howdy. Long time listener, first time caller...
I am not a technician, nor have I ever stayed a Holiday Inn, but I did hit my 1998 Ranger with a hammer enough to change the heater core, along with some minor suspension work and maintenance items on mine and my coworker's trucks over the years.
My mom has two Civics. She bought a second one, a 2003 with 66K on it, because her first, a '00 with 309K on it, was getting a little long in the tooth. But she's in love with that car.
There is oil in the coolant of the '00. It's an EX trim, and I've deduced it's a D16Y8 engine. Sounds like my two possibilities are a cracked block/head or a head gasket. It's been babied since she got the car over 200k miles ago, and never overheated. So I am operating on the assumption it's a head gasket.
After some research, this looks like something I can do myself after enough hits with a hammer. But after mom and I made some calls to our usual mechanics (prior to my decision to try it myself), they do not want to do head work on cars with this many miles. The reason given by one was just a general "we don't want the liability" statement. Ok, fine, I get it. The reason given by the other surprised me a little.
This shop stated that, after machining the head, there is a risk of increased pressure on the block that could lead to a bottom-end blowout, and they do not want that liability.

My question is, is this a real thing? The car otherwise ran (and still does, really) and drove great. Drinks a quart of oil between changes, but it's done that for 10+ years. Machining the head if it needs it (will be getting a straight-edge and feeler gauges) will probably be the only complication for me in this repair, but has anybody here heard of this kind of catastrophic failure happening after machining a head on an engine? In theory, I understand the risk. Removing material from the bottom of the head means you reduce the room available for the compressed air, resulting in increased compression. But while I'm not a car guy, I am fairly mechanically inclined, and a few thou, or even ten thou, off the bottom of the head ought to result in a fairly miniscule increase in compression...right?

I've found a shop with an imported, low-mileage D16Y8 long block. Pulling an engine is a notch or two above my pay grade, so the work will have to be outsourced. That means $$$. Which we aren't unwilling to do if needed, but would obviously like to avoid. If there actually is a significant risk of blowing up the engine after getting the head machined, that may influence our decision.

 

I've heard this reasoning throughout the years, all the way back to the late 90's when I was still an actual technician.

The argument isn't that the slightly increased compression ratio will do damage, it's that refreshing the head and improving the seal (and hence, compression) that it makes will make other issues become prominent - As in, your 300k mile rings that may be getting by with your tired old valve seats will now not hold compression, and now you have an engine that is burning oil and leaking out of the main seals.

Theoretically, makes some sense. Practically, it's a technician covering their butt to avoid an expensive & time consuming comeback.

The engine can likely be rebuilt. There's really not much to it, but only a teardown will tell. Put your hammer away!

 

That makes some sense. Issues being masked by less-than-optimal compression cropping up when compression is improved. The guy I talked to at this particular shop, however, implied that it would/could result in a catastrophic failure rather than some oil bypass. I guess you bypass and burn off enough oil and it'll eventually spin a bearing or throw a rod.

On the topic of burning oil, I mentioned that the car uses about a quart of oil between it's 3,000-mile oil changes. This seems to be fairly common. The newer '03 with 60k miles does it, too. Do you happen to know, or have a guess, as to where the oil is going on the cars that this happens to? I have to imagine that oil is getting into the cylinders already, but I have only a basic understanding of how engines are put together.

I guess the thousand-dollar question is, is this a concern that's realistic enough to skip straight to a rebuilt or used motor replacement, or is a head gasket replacement still a viable option?

Seems like I'll need to borrow my coworkers compression test kit one way or another.

 

If the car has never overheated, you may not even need to have the head machined flat to do the head gasket. I've replaced a few head gaskets now and not had issues. The one time I did do more head work of lapping the valves, I also did a light hone and re-ringed the motor as well as all new main and cam seals as well as the repair sleeves on the crank snouts etc. That motor doesn't consume any oil just sounds horrible for the piston slap in one cylinder from taper being beyond spec, especially after the light hone.

If the heads flat, you can just replace the head gasket. If it needs a slight shave, that shouldn't affect it really. I think it's only if you lap the valves so they seat perfectly again that you might get more blow by upping your oil consumption through the PVC system. But even then I doubt it will be catastrophic in any means.

FYI 1 quart every 3000 miles is perfectly within tolerance by Honda specifications for their older motors (the 00 and the 03).

 

I changed my buddys head gasket in the Auto zone parking lot once! i had the drive back then, now i barely want to do an oil change!

You can try just replacing the head gasket, you will not hurt anything.

Or find a cheap JDM engine replacement and swap it in! Just remember to do the CFK bypass just look it up its super easy to do!

 

Thanks.
Mom and I had a little bit of a come-to-Jesus moment talking about the car. We aren't going to spend the $1500 for the import motor and another couple grand to install. We could, but we'd still have a car with 310K on the trans, 310k on the HVAC system, 310k on the electronics, etc. But since it sounds like the oil consumption is within spec, and the car certainly doesn't feel like it's lost any compression/power (mom and I agree, it feels faster than the 2003 LX), we'll put a few hundred in the head gasket and accompanying items. Squeeze another few years out of it, see what happens.

While watching a video, the guy replacing the gasket pointed out some hose on the passenger side of the motor, saying it may well have been the culprit. Comes out the side of the motor, behind the distributor, and takes an immediate turn towards the firewall. Is that the thermostat hose? The one on mine looks pretty ratty, so whatever it is is getting replaced while I'm in there with wrenches and hammers.

I really appreciate the responses from everybody. I'm on a couple enthusiast sights in other fields (boom sticks and such), and it sure is nice to have folks with vastly more experience willing to give their opinion.

 

What the mechanic is talking about when he said Lower end blow out, is the piston oil control rings will fail once you subject them to the compression that the engine is supposed to have and you will spit blue smoke out the exhaust. I had it happed on a 1975 Chevy straight 6 and a 1983 Mitusbishi pickup. (did valve jobs on both) Havent had it on anything since, Why? because the engines from about 1990 are made so much better than they used to be. Much better tolerances and even better metals to put the engines together. My daily driver is Stinky (1995 Civic lx) it has 425k MILES Thats 425 Thousand miles It had a chipped/burnt exhaust valve on number 3. I replaced the head and have been driving it ever since. Good compression and normal oil burning. Go to Headsonly.com and see how much a head is for your engine Find a service manual and get to work. Do a compression test first though just to make sure its a bad head gasket
Good luck

 

Sounds like one of the heater hoses.

Replace every hose you can get at while you're in there. It will never be easier.

 

Water pump and all the hoses, timing belt, valve cover gasket, distributor O ring, vtec solenoid gasket, thermostat, spark plugs and intake manifold gasket.

 

I think all those gaskets and orings are included in the factory head gasket kit. The valve cover gasket for sure, as well as spark plug tube seals. Kit part number is 06110-P2P-A00. It appears to be every seal, gasket, and oring you have to remove to get to the head gasket. I would assume that includes the Vtec and distributor seals. Pictures sure look like it, but of course none of the retailers I can find actually have an itemized list. They clearly assume I know what I'm doing. Bold move.

The water pump and thermostat are on the short list no matter how far I go with this. It's for sure the original pump.

Thanks!
Definitely will consider a new head.
I'm toying with the idea of a full rebuild at home. I've done some search-fu on this forum and others, and I think I can pull the crank without pulling the block, but more research will be done. We're putting a $1,000 cap on what I do, and it's starting to look like I can get this thing done for a fair bit under that. Hell, all the complicated stuff looks like it's in the head, and if I get a whole new head assembly, valves and all, I don't even have to touch all of that.

Question for the masses on piston rings and crankshaft bearings, though. I see standard nominal sizes for oversized piston rings and crank/piston bearings. Is this something I have to take measurements on when I take the old thing out, or is this only in instances where the part has been modified, like a bore being honed? I have some calipers I can take measurements with.

Once again, I appreciate all the answers give thus far.

 

You gotta pull the trans to pull the crank, and since you're already pulling the head (and even if you weren't), it doesn't really make a lick of sense to strip an engine with it still hanging in the car. You've saved yourself nothing at that point and are just electing to be on 'hard mode'.

 

Gotcha. Unfortunately, I have no good way to pull the block. So it looks like I may have to stick with the original plan to just do the top end.

 

make your life simple, just stick with the head

 

Putting in my parts order today.
I THINK I found the problem hose that I want to get at, but I'm unfamiliar with the terminology.
On this diagram, I'm thinking it's number 2. I am assuming the front end of that goes to the engine.
https://www.hondapartsonline.net/v-2...l--water-valve

In the alternative, I have access to 7/8" ID dishwasher/radiator hose in rolls if that's all these factory hoses are.

 

Don't use dishwasher hose. It's not designed for that pressure and will degrade in a bay. The hoses are all molded to shape and fairly inexpensive. If one of those is leaking, fix them all. You should be able to find them aftermarket as well. Don't waste your time with bulk hose if you can avoid it.

Snap a picture of your problem hose.