Hello,

I have a 1995 Honda Civic (128K miles) that started leaking mid last year. Got the cam shaft repaired and everything was fine for a few months. Then leaking again. The warranty is good for a year so took it back to the same shop. Another 2 months goes by , starts leaking again, the cam shaft. I want to note that twice I took it to my tire/oil change place I use for initial second opinion and they found it to be leaking cam shaft as well. So it's been a total of 4 times I have taken it to the same shop to fix this leak. I am not losing oil but it's big enough spots ( tennis ball size a couple) and smells like oil burning while driving for a few.
The last time was almost 2 months ago I got it re-fixed and they said they put "Honda bondo" around seal so should do the job ( why this wasn't done initially not sure). Can anyone tell me what they are doing wrong? What should I do as the owner? I love this car ( original owner) and want to keep her another year before donating and buying something new next year. Thank you for any help/suggestions what's being done wrong or what questions to ask.

 

are you talking about the camshaft seal on the Timing belt side ?

Did they use an OEM honda seal or aftermarket ?

 

If it's the camshaft seal it's quite possible even the Honda bond won't do it if it's leaking because of a wear groove.

They have repair sleeves for the groove that eventually forms on the cam shaft, or crank shaft (in my case).

 

Thank you for the idea of asking about the seal...I am gathering a list before I return to them of what all I want to know they have done/used ( kinda a punch list).
I am a female and original owner so I really want to take care of her while I have her still and before donating. It's considered under warranty since they still have not finished the job. So taking it back this week to fix once and for all or they can pay for me to take it somewhere else.
I believe it's the camshaft seal on the Timing belt side.
Can I still get an OEM Honda seal? or are only aftermarkets available for older Honda? Where do I get OEM one? Thank you so much for replying :-)

 

Thank you for that suggestion...adding to my list of questions to ask to see if they did any of these items. They are obviously doing something wrong, but being female,
I know just enough auto mechanics to get me into trouble( I have changed my own oil, spark plugs, and brake fluid) . I found repair sleeves on O'Reilly site so it looks like those are available. Thank you again so much, any ammunition I have before returning this week will help hoping in resolving.

 

what model civic EX LX DX, etc ?

also 1 owner 95 civic with 128k, no after market modifications ? I think a lot of people are probably jealous of you right now, I know i am lol

We can help you get a link to the part or the OEM part # but need model to verify, but i think they may be all the same on those

 

Oh I am sorry, I guess that would make a difference...it's a DX. No modifications BUT new paint 10 years ago ( with Maaco when I lived in Cali.) because it was turning pink on the roof ( original color was bright red and Maaco paint job matches inside pain perfectly) . That paint jobs looks still really good just a couple of chips from rocks but really tiny on hood. Otherwise she has been towed from Georgia where I bought her October 1995 with my twin sister, to California ( driven all over Cali and Nevada/Colorado). Moved to Florida in 2017 and drove her the whole way. Just recently had to put the first time ever over $500 repairs. Love this little car. It's going to be tough to let her go :-( Thank you again so much for the help...I am hoping the more prepared I am the better I can get some resolution and get this properly repaired this time.

 

Here is the oem seal

https://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com...ft-timing-belt

#20 in the picture

Oil Seal (29X45X8) (Arai)
91213-P2F-A01

Here it is on amazon


When you are ready to get rid of it let me know, I would probably make you an offer on it, is it manual by chance ?

 

OH wow, thank you!!! I am printing the page now with the correct part.

No, it's an automatic ( I know, you guys love the manuals!). Sorry. But if you are still interested will for sure let you know when ready to let her go by the end of the year. Thank you again for all your know-how and help! Much appreciated!

 

Yea make sure they are using OEM parts from the dealership, aftermarket seals are not made as good as the OEM seals.

 

Still interested let me know when you are ready, I am in central florida

 

I will make sure of it...thank you so much again

 

That is not always true. As someone pointed out the Fel-Pro rear main seal is actually beefier and better than the OEM seal. NOK Aria are the two main OEM seal suppliers and some of the Fel-Pro seals are superior.

Beck and Arnley is a high quality reboxer so their parts are often just as good, sometimes even OEM or better than OEM. One of the few aftermarket brands I lean towards when required.

I still suspect it's not the seal itself but a groove preventing any seal from actually sealing.

 

This is not my experience. The ONLY seal from Fel-Pro that is superior to a Genuine Honda one is the "B" series steel skeleton oil pan gasket... it is a great product. The rest are crap... especially the valve cover gaskets.

If you can find a NOK or Aria main or cam seal reboxed... that should be fine too. I haven't discovered that source yet, so I cough up the $$$ and buy Genuine Honda.

 

Thank you for the suggestion! I am leaning more towards the wear groove myself. Will find out and follow up after repair is done later this week.

 

Yes, I think going with actual Honda part is worth it. I bet they didn't use them though. Thank you for the information and feedback

 

The rear main for D's by fel-pro are wider. Quite often they will extend past the groove caused by the oem seals and seal up where the OEM won't. This is the seal I find better than OEM. You found a pan gasket that is better. So my statement stands, sometimes superior.

I tend to usually buy Nok or Aria as Autopartsway tends to have them quite often. But for that rear main, I won't concern myself if fel-pro is all that is available.

I also didn't have any problem with the blue viton coated perma-torque head gasket other than it was thinner being for a Y8. It's still sealed up and it's been several years now. Oh I don't like their oil pan gasket for the D's but so far the rear main has been a great product.

 

TomCat39, just to be clear... my experience with Fel-Pro products may be different than yours, but I am certainly not suggesting that your opinion/experience is wrong. When rear main seals leak, the "Fix" is not an easy one, so having to do it multiple times because of a bad product can leave a bad taste for an owner requiring hours of mechanical work, or worse yet, a HUGE dent in one's wallet if you have to pay a mechanic to do this job.

I think the information that you provided about repairing a groove in the crank tail is very useful, and it is likely that using those sleeves improves the ability of any rear main seal product/brand to effectively seal the rear of the engine.

 

The repair sleeve lets you go back to OEM seals for the rear main, front main or even cam shaft. I believe the idea of the Fel-Pro rear main seal is to work without the repair sleeve. It was another dedicated user here that pointed out the beefier rear main of Fel-Pro. Until they mentioned it, I never compared, but after I did I had a better appreciation for the design idea of that specific seal.

My factory trained Honda Tech friend told me (assuming OEM seal) that if there is a groove, don't put the seal fully in so it sits about 1mm out from that groove basically. Almost impossible to do on the rear main and why I think Fel-Pro took the approach they did, however, it still doesn't guarantee a solid seal, just improves the odds a little. It really just depends on how bad the groove is from what I've seen so far.

The only real (but economical) fix is the repair sleeves of which I have used 3 so far with excellent success. Or weld and regrind of the snout(s) but I'm not sure how economical that method is.

 

Wow, really good detailed information on the sleeves. Thank you! :-)

 

Actually it is better documented here:

The sleeves that were ordered.

The arrival of the sleeves.

Installing the sleeves, actual install at post 388.

The SKF 99123 is the sleeve I believe you will need for the cam shaft. I used it on the front crank snout. You might research a bit and confirm it is for Honda Camshafts too. If you follow the posts from the one I referenced above, you will see my install technique which can also be used on the cam shaft. I've been thinking about making a special nut with the ready rod in it for the camshaft like I did for the crank just haven't had a need.

Also of note, the Fel-Pro install tool in that post is incorrect and I ended up returning it. Fel-Pro discontinued the install tool for the rear main sleeve and a small piece of wood and soft taps all around are the old school install method I used on 2 occasions now.

You can also see in the photo that I appear to have warbled the rear main install the first time, probably from hammering it too hard and quite likely why it was weeping prior to the repair sleeve. An uneven install I've been told will fail sometimes catastrophically. I also believe deep grooves and high rpm can also cause the catastrophic failure.

Hopefully your mechanic can get you resolved.

 

Oh man, even better. I will try and "snip it" most of this and include in my doc of suggestions from you and others on this forum. He has really young guys working there and suspect they just don't know what they are doing ( plus he doesn't have to pay as much as older more experienced folks-which I suspect is reason for young staff). Thank you so much again! Melissa

 

UPDATE: I knew there was more going on with my car. See attached receipt from another shop I used for oil change and minor maintenance. I am going to finally let her go and sale to someone who will either be able to rebuild or put in another motor. She only has 128K but I guess the years have caught up with her. If anyone here wants first dibs let me know. Otherwise I will post on Marketplace over the weekend. Thank you all for your input and help! :-)