Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

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Old Dec 18, 2020 | 07:16 PM
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Default Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Very new to this so this is what I did. Not sure of if this info is needed to answer my question but here it is:

00 si chassi

B16a2 head
tuner stage 1 cams
Skunk2 dual valve springs
skunk2 titanium retainers

b18c1 block
stock crank and rods
Jdm p73 pistons standard bore
jdm p73 rings standard size

Mechanic put everything together and dropped it in the car. He broke his hand so I had to finish the installing harness. Upon doing the harness I found out I have no ckf sensor on my block to plug into my stock em1 harness. Car obviously won't start without it so I did the bypass trick, and quick connected c22 ckfp and c29 cypp and quick connected c30 cypm and c31 ckfm. I also managed to pull knock sensor wire out of the plug trying to stretch the harness. To fix that I sodered a longer plug to my harness to reach. After all that and playing with the distributor I got the car started but it would immediately die unless I held the gas so I adjusted throttle cable to keep the car running. I ran the car under 2000rpm for about 15 to 20 min and had to go to work. Next day I put 2 gal of gas, didn't drive car yet. Now the car doesn't want to start at all. Noticed my oil smelled like gas so I checked my new plugs and found them to be fouled so I replaced all injectors with stock 240cc and put new regulator and changed my oil. Checked filter and made sure return wasn't clogged. I checked compression on all 4 cylinders. Jumped to 210 and was steady at 185. I checked and was getting spark. I don't know what else to do. Can someone point me in the right direction to get the car running again please? Thank you in advance for any suggestions



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Old Dec 19, 2020 | 05:19 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

What ECU is being used?

What CEL codes are stored in ECU?

If you spray starting fluid into throttle body, does engine now start?
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Old Dec 19, 2020 | 06:26 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

I'm using stock p2t ecu for 00 si. I'm pretty sure gas in oil is from pumping gas trying to start. Yes I've tried the starter fluid. I'm getting no signal for ckf code but motor started with it before.
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Old Dec 19, 2020 | 06:53 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Stock ecu, why?
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Old Dec 19, 2020 | 07:03 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Tbh I thought I'd be able to start it using stock ecu
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Old Dec 19, 2020 | 07:06 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

I figured it run enough to putt around until I got a p28 and type r map
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Old Dec 20, 2020 | 05:51 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

no solbros....no...
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Old Dec 20, 2020 | 06:28 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Huh?
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Old Dec 20, 2020 | 08:48 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Originally Posted by SpunOnCaps
Tbh I thought I'd be able to start it using stock ecu
Originally Posted by SpunOnCaps
I figured it run enough to putt around until I got a p28 and type r map
Originally Posted by tony_2018
no solbros....no...
Originally Posted by SpunOnCaps
Huh?
The only part you need to understand of Tony's statement is "no". The rest is his dry humor coming out for everyone else to enjoy.

You can't run a double jingle motor with a stock single jingle ecu. It's quite possible the timing and fuel maps are so far different it won't start it. If your motor is freshly built you are running the risk of cylinder wash and improper break in running the wrong engine management.
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Old Dec 20, 2020 | 09:15 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

So what should I do? The car was running just fine on the drive way then the next time I tried starting it, no start.
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Old Dec 21, 2020 | 06:34 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Originally Posted by TomCat39
You can't run a double jingle motor with a stock single jingle ecu. It's quite possible the timing and fuel maps are so far different it won't start it. If your motor is freshly built you are running the risk of cylinder wash and improper break in running the wrong engine management.
A P2T is a B16 ecu. Looking at the pictures provided it looks like a stock head for the car that OP has dropped a 1.8 short block under. It really should start and idle on the stock ecu even if it doesn’t run that well.

OP, why is your pcv valve laying out on top of the manifold there instead of being connected as it should?
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Old Dec 21, 2020 | 09:03 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

The pcv valve is laying on top however its running down to the black box on side of the the block so it is connected. I'm checking my wiring and my grounds? Will the higher compression combination that I did require a stronger ignition system maybe?
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Old Dec 21, 2020 | 01:49 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Stage 1 cams? Maybe a bit rough.

Check fuel(and I don't mean spray it into the cylinders)
Check your mechanical timing(cam gears zeroed out and crank timing marks lined up)
Check the distributor firing order(yeah...look this up cuz I can't remember)
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Old Dec 21, 2020 | 01:57 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Originally Posted by SpunOnCaps
I'm checking my wiring and my grounds?
That's a great place to begin, especially if it previously started and now won't, with nothing changed.

Originally Posted by SpunOnCaps
Will the higher compression combination that I did require a stronger ignition system maybe?
No. The stock coil is plenty strong (unless it's dead). You may consider closing the plug gaps a little, but that's part of the tuning process and you don't need to worry about that until you can get it down the road.

That PCV valve is still fishy to me. I don't think it's the source of your no-start condition but it doesn't seem right. Why isn't it hooked up as stock? It should just sit in the hole between the 3 & 4 runners and then connect to a short length of tube down to the black box. Also, it's hard to tell from your pics but it looks like it might be hooked up backwards. The 90° nipple should be going to the intake manifold.
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Old Dec 21, 2020 | 05:32 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Originally Posted by tony_2018
Stage 1 cams? Maybe a bit rough.

Check fuel(and I don't mean spray it into the cylinders)
Check your mechanical timing(cam gears zeroed out and crank timing marks lined up)
Check the distributor firing order(yeah...look this up cuz I can't remember)
I was able to check distributor firing order (it was good) however I wasn't able to really get into checking the timing. I honestly think it has to do with the timing. It's weird actually. When I'm turning the key over and then give up, as the key is returning the car tries to start.

Originally Posted by spAdam
That's a great place to begin, especially if it previously started and now won't, with nothing changed.



No. The stock coil is plenty strong (unless it's dead). You may consider closing the plug gaps a little, but that's part of the tuning process and you don't need to worry about that until you can get it down the road.

That PCV valve is still fishy to me. I don't think it's the source of your no-start condition but it doesn't seem right. Why isn't it hooked up as stock? It should just sit in the hole between the 3 & 4 runners and then connect to a short length of tube down to the black box. Also, it's hard to tell from your pics but it looks like it might be hooked up backwards. The 90° nipple should be going to the intake manifold.
The PCV valve is ran that way because I wasn't completely sure on how it went in the beginning and when I realized it went through the hole on the intake I had this no start problem. I plan on running it properly
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Old Dec 21, 2020 | 08:47 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Originally Posted by spAdam
A P2T is a B16 ecu. Looking at the pictures provided it looks like a stock head for the car that OP has dropped a 1.8 short block under. It really should start and idle on the stock ecu even if it doesn’t run that well.

OP, why is your pcv valve laying out on top of the manifold there instead of being connected as it should?
I didn't realize the 2000 Si had the B16. I thought the B16 was only the SiR and the Si was still the Y8.

Thank you for clarifying that. OP is in good hands.
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Old Dec 21, 2020 | 10:38 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Partly on me, I forget you are in the way north. It’s a wee bit different up that way.
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Old Dec 22, 2020 | 12:56 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Any CELs?
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Old Dec 22, 2020 | 12:12 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Originally Posted by tony_2018
Any CELs?
Just, ckf no signal code. That's due to bypassing it. I described how I did it in original post. When the car started in the beginning, the code was present

Last edited by SpunOnCaps; Dec 22, 2020 at 08:09 PM.
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Old Dec 25, 2020 | 04:35 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Originally Posted by SpunOnCaps
Just, ckf no signal code.
The CKF code tells you that you did not do the CKF bypass correctly. The engine either has no spark or the spark timing is off. Fix the CKF bypass issue.
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Old Dec 25, 2020 | 08:36 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Originally Posted by muellersfan
The CKF code tells you that you did not do the CKF bypass correctly. The engine either has no spark or the spark timing is off. Fix the CKF bypass issue.
I'm not ready to open the timing can of worms yet. Mostly because I'm worried about screwing things up more by doing it wrong. The CKF won't be a problem to fix so I'll get that done Sunday when I'm off work. I've checked for spark already, I'm wondering if it's not enough spark though. I've also checked that I'm getting fuel and I'm definitely getting it
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 08:25 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

I opened the timing can of worms and the car wasn't properly timed, causing my issue. I also fixed ckf bypass. I drove it around today to see what codes would pop up if any and sure enough i got some.

P0170 fuel trim
P0172 system too rich

I have new stock injectors 240cc and new fuel regulator. All installed before the car was running. I'm running the stock P2T si ecu.

Is it my ecu causing the codes? From the research I've done, I was under the impression that the si ecu wouldn't be sending enough fuel fur the set up. What I should check or do so this code goes away and didn't come back?

Thanks in advance everyone.
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Old Jan 20, 2021 | 08:49 PM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Check for exhaust leaks, upstream of oxygen sensor and nearby. (Donut joint, gaskets, cracks, etc.). Inspect oxygen sensor wiring and connectors. Inspect sensor grounds at thermostat and ecu. What is the condition of the sensor? Check for vacuum leaks on intake manifold. Where did you get the injectors? Usually you get a lean code for these but it’s worth investigating. Rich codes are usually electrical in my experience.
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Old Jan 21, 2021 | 04:35 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Originally Posted by spAdam
Check for exhaust leaks, upstream of oxygen sensor and nearby. (Donut joint, gaskets, cracks, etc.). Inspect oxygen sensor wiring and connectors. Inspect sensor grounds at thermostat and ecu. What is the condition of the sensor? Check for vacuum leaks on intake manifold. Where did you get the injectors? Usually you get a lean code for these but it’s worth investigating. Rich codes are usually electrical in my experience.
My speedometer was going crazy, bouncing around, and not working. I was able to fix that by cleaning connections and wires on my speed sensor going to the tranny. I'll check grounds at thermostat as well to make sure they're clean and tight. There was oil on them, maybe it's the same issue with my o2. I have a brand new 02 i can slap on, the 02 sensor on there I'm unsure of it's condition. The car has been sitting for a few years before I put this motor in it. The injectors were from oreilly's.
Will exhaust leaks cause ecu to think it's not getting enough gas and dunno more?
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Old Jan 21, 2021 | 06:46 AM
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Default Re: Need help badly with getting freshly built em1 started

Check for exhaust leaks 1st, if no leaks used the new sensors and reset ecu.

edit 2: also make sure you bleed out all the air in the coolant system.
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