Greetings,

I picked up a clean rolling chassis EH transtop 2 years ago. I recently moved and finally have ample space and a little time to advance my project. I've been off forums for over 15 years so there is a lot I do not know about. I was using a palm pilot (colored...fancy eh) with Tunerstein freeware and a GM translator with an EGT to tune my 91 TSI AWD back in 2002 and I haven't gone deep into tuning since because I got married, children, etc. Kids are now 14 and 12, both Freshman in highschool, and I can focus on the project.

I have modded cars (mainly imports) since 1999. Starting with AWD DSMs, Audi quattro (1.8T and 2.7T), Volvo V70 estate, and numerous N/A Honda's (D and B series). I try and do as much as I can myself to gain the experience and to understand my setup for troubleshooting purposes.

I expect this thread/project to be a work-in-progress for a while (hopefully under 18months) because of time constraints (2 kids, full time job, moved to the middle of nowhere, other hobbies). I could use help with links, manuals, advice, and parts along the way. I would gladly partner with a mentor if anyone is willing to coach me through my build and allow me to ask questions and learn. I am not a master tech but I do have a fair amount of knowledge and turned plenty of wrenches. My spring to fall daily driver is a 97 ex coupe with fidanza flywheel, em1 springs, aluminum radiator, blox rear LCA, injen intake, and a couple rebuilt items (d16z6 block honed and rebuilt with y8 head using piezoelectric sensors to get around the knock sensor, rebuilt the m/t with new bearings/syncros/seals). I've put 25k on the rebuilt motor but only 5k on the transmission. Goal was to see the car surpass 300k miles when I spun a rod bearing at 198k and if not...learn from my potential mistakes.

Let's get started....Finally.

Car: 1995 Crx Del Sol Transtop (originally a D1.6 and I believe the previous owner had a B1.8)
Purpose: Street machine mainly
I have gathered some parts and I want to gather much more but I believe it's appropriate to poll the audience dor suggestions, lessons learned, etc. I want to do it once and do it right.

Parts on hand:
H22A jdm block (bare block, freshly honed, no bore or custom sleeves)
A pair of H22A4 heads (1 ported but bare and the other complete with F series cams, skunk2 cam gears, and I'm not positive on the springs/valves but I was told it needs new seals)
Balance shaft eliminator kit
QSD H2b kit (used..no idea if they made changes to their kit over time and I don't have installation instructions for it)
1320 h2b motor mounts
​​​​​Many h23 parts (except block) from a 92 prelude 4WS that I stripped including head, intake manifold, wiring, ECU, etc.
Wiseco 8.5:1 pistons NIB
Scat H beam rods with Type S pistons mounted (gently used)
polished H22A crank
H22 and H23 valve covers (h22 has welded bungs for oil)
Blitz BOV

I would like to ditch the Scat rods and Type S pistons and get I beam rods for the Wiseco pistons. Based on what I've read, I should pick up Dart wet sleeves and an aftermarket crank since the FRM will not hold up to the Wiseco pistons with boost although I do not know about the crank limitations.

I have not done an E85 build but I am not opposed to it. I had planned on traditional 91-93 octane fuel without ethanol but I definitely want to avoid melting my motor and have room for plenty of boost.

I do not want to cut the firewall or frame rails since this EH is rust free and very clean. I don't really want a roll cage but I want the car to handle 500-700hp. I imagine a different cross member is needed.

I can't afford to send the car to a shop and give them an endless budget for parts but I also realize this won't be possible for less than 10K even with some used parts.

I want to avoid heat soaking an intercooler (not sourced) and also avoid pressure dropping.

Already I am all over the place and I know it's going to be challenging to have meaningful discourse with all the variables for building the car in one thread. I will narrow the focus to my current focus and we can see where it takes us
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Currently looking into intake manifolds with the H2B utilizing the older QSD h2b kit and 1320 mounts.

Does anyone have intake manifold suggestions where I can avoid cutting into my firewall. I realize I likely will need hood spacers and that's okay if necessary.

I had looked at the skunk2 pro series and I can get one used for $220 plus shipping. Nothing else included.
I can port the h23 intake manifold but I imagine this will be my weakest link and aftermarket may be necessary. I do not know exactly what things I should bypass but I would like a fairly clean setup. Likely doing a wire tuck after I get the build complete and all the kinks hammered out.

What IM do you recommend and why? I realize there may be information you need to ask in order to give a recommendation so I will do my best to help you help me.

In advance I appreciate the time, space, and positive vibes.
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I hesitate to ask about quality of products because some companies attempt to improve their designs when flaws occur. When performing a search for intake manifolds I have seen comments about venomX welds but these threads are not recent and it's possible an improvement has been made or there could have been other factors contributing to a failed part.

I believe there isn't a H series victory X. I recently discovered H to K adapters but I haven't seen many turbo builds using it. I prefer function over style. I have considered a homemade sheet metal intake but it's likely I will purchase one for the sake of time since I have a long way to go.

Golden Eagle and skunk2 seem to appear frequently in most builds I have seen when searching for h2b for an EG/EH.

 

Will the stock manifold fit in the engine bay with the swap? If so, you may want to talk to Cole @ Bad Guys Worldwide. I'm not super knowledgable about H/F series and which parts are interchangeable, but he has a CNC program to port one of the stock H/F manifolds, and I think they are making good power. He also makes a plenum spacer. Just may be a good alternative option.

 

The stock manifold will fit according to what I've seen from other h2b swaps with the kit and mounts I intend to use. Thank tou for the resource. It appears they have lots of options for customizing (dual TB, welded plenum spacers, nitrous plates, etc.) and they retain somewhat of the oem look. With the options I selected it would be roughly $775 + a core + shipping. Personally I would opt for this over the Golden Eagle. I am eager to see what else people know about because I'm not sure I ever would have came across this company with the methods I have been using to gather information.

My main consideration has been the Skunk2 only because I've seen it around a lot but the clearance issues are something I don't want to run into. Unfortunately, after moving to Northeast Iowa, I don't know anyone in a 80 mile radius, yet, who have parts to measure or experience with the h2b setup.

 

The FRM sleeve is much stronger than many people give it credit for... 500 wheel HP on a stock block is quite common. You are correct when you state that the Wiseco pistons cannot be used with the stock sleeves, however, there are forged pistons that CAN be used... they are from Mahle. They are called "Gold Series" and have a special coating and ring pack to be compatible with the stock FRM sleeves.

Man, I want a trans top Del Sol...

 

These forums are dead compared to what they used to be, but most of us that still hang around are old heads, like yourself. I'm sure the folks that are still here will rally and help you out with questions you have. I have been turning wrenches since about 1997 and I built a turbo Honda in 2004 and didn't get back in the game until 2 years ago. Most of my experience is with Honda D-series and B-series, so any advice I give, please look at it through that lens...that I *may* be wrong if there is something different about H-series that I'm not familiar with. I'll try to only speak to what I know, though.

JRCivic1 has some good advice there on the sleeves/block/pistons. Make sure you send your pistons in with the block when you have it bored/honed so they can size it appropriately. I know you said the block you have is freshly honed - is it still stock bore? The pistons you have are also stock bore?

H-beams should be OK for your goals, but I-beams are stronger. I think first thing you need to decide is what piston / sleeve combo you're going to run, and then determine if you are going to run the current bore size you're at or if you're going to bore +0.5mm (I would probably recommend the latter). I think the stock crank will be fine.

E85 is cool stuff if you have access. You can always do two tunes or run flex fuel (I am doing this) if your EMS has that feature. It will help make reaching your HP goal more attainable/safer, but you'll need to build the fuel system to handle it (2200 cc/min injectors, Walbro 450 and upgraded wiring, etc).

Not sure what you mean about heat soaking the intercooler.

 

The pistons are the same size and they match the bore of the block. If I bored the block over then I would need new pistons and I would go with the low compression Mahles so there is plenty of room for boost and a lighter rotating assembly. It's great to have new options presented, I really do appreciate it greatly.

Any thoughts on cryogenics, shot peening, and knife edging? In my 4g63t DSM days; it was a hot topic. I don't mind paying for insurance and reducing rotating assembly weight usually unleashes enough hp to make it worth it. I was skeptical of the knife edge or tear drop crank shaping for fear of bad harmonics and premature bearing failure. My goal is to have three settings for tunes...
1) Economy mode....40-50% power for long cruising or congested driving in town where I won't be tempted to be a kid again
2) Normal mode....60-70% power
3) Max power mode... 80% power for when I lose by a narrow margin in Normal mode and want to go double or nothing
I don't actually plan on street racing but my wife and I have discussed doing the Gumball style event once if I could actually make the cut to enter. I want this build to last 75k miles and I intend on inspecting internal components every 15k to ensure I don't spin a bearing, have a turbo grenade, or some other big catastrophe which would make the motor become worthless. I'd rather catch something early and rebuild it because I've learned the hard way over the years.

In regards to the heat soaking topic...I have seen dyno runs get incrementally worse from the first run to the third or fourth and then the rest remain poor. Improvements to make the cooling of air more efficient becomes necessary. If you cannot fully recover the power then backing off the boost until you no longer heat soak typically gives you the optimal hp curve by losing a little down loan and making up for it throughout the rest of the powerband. The drag strip is probably the only time you would get away with turning the boost up and not worrying about heat soaking because you can cool the car down between runs and get it even cooler with old school methods you sometimes see at the strip.

I know this won't be the most practical build but it seems like my type of fun in the heartland of tractors, trucks, and circle track racing.

 

Yeah, those are 87 mm (stock bore) pistons. If you do end up going with new pistons, I would not go for low compression. These days most folks roll with something between 9:1 - 10:1 on turbo builds - it makes for a much more enjoyable ride out of boost. I know you have parts, and that does play into it, but by boring, you are ensuring that your P2W clearance is right and that you are starting with a round bore. At a minimum you should have a machine shop inspect the bores for roundness and also inspect the pistons and tell you what your P2W is so that you know what you're starting with.

I don't know much about knife edging, but for your goals I don't think it's necessary. What are you wanting to have peened or cryo treated?

Which engine management are you going to use?

It doesn't matter how good your cooling system is, or how many fans you've got blowing on the car on the dyno, stuff is going to heat soak. It all depends on how you set up the tune, but typically the ECU will pull timing as IAT's go up.

 

Shot peen the rods possibly but I don't imagine that's necessary with aftermarket rods in honda motors or else they would probably offer it as a service from more shops than what I've been able to find.

Cryo the rotating assembly is what used to be suggested prior to performance a bore and checking clearances for p2w, crank bearings, and rod bearings.

I haven't explored tuning software but s300 seems popular and lots of people seem to make great numbers with it. I don't know lick about it at this point. I figured I would cross that bridge when I get to it but if that will be a factor in my parts for the build then possibly I should be researching it now?

My buddy turbod a del sol vtech b16a with only apexi v-afc or maybe it was a s-afc. The alternative was writing maps to the eeprom chip and I never dabled in it. For what it's worth I am an aerospace system engineer who was formerly a software engineer with a computer science degree with an emphasis in embedded systems. I love embedded systems and I/O but I have never incorporated my education or job experience to a project other than the piezoelectric knock sensor bypass and I never wrote code which was used in a car project but I'm not opposed to a system that has the ability to write our own algorithms either for an enhanced warning system, BITE code, or other function.

I'd love to use dial calipers or other tool and spec everything myself to get the experience but I believe I should take everyone's advice and have a shop size everything, check for warping, and do a balance/blueprint for reducing risk based on one of my goals of longevity.

If a few more people believe I should go with a higher compression then I'm at a point where that would be wise to abort this plan and go back to the drawing board. I don't think it would be too difficult to find someone to buy my parts and go with the Mahle 87.25 10:1 or 9.2:1 (based on .66mm head gasket thickness). I would consider 10:1 and maybe use a slightly thicker head gasket.

I know this isn't a stroker so rod angles are likely not an issue. Using oem length rods is probably the recommendation I assume. Shorter rods probably don't serve a purpose here. I won't be revving like a built N/A. I believe tensile/compressive loads are slightly lessoned by lighter pistons since the reduction in weight allows for a little more force to be applied (room for slightly more boost or higher compression). By the way, I'm often told I over analyze things or get hung up on minor details by exploring every potential efficiency small or large. Sometimes it's a blessing when troubleshooting and other times a curse.

 

Likely old news. The first thread I found on a prelude forum for preludes said h23 intake manifold bolts up to h22 head. I can attest that the h23 I have from a p13 hf4 (stamped on manifold near TB flange) does not mate up to the h22a4 head, not even close.

 

I'm not the authority, but I don't hear much about folks cryo treating Honda rotating assemblies. With aftermarket rods and your goals, I'd say peening isn't necessary.

I'm running the S300 - it works well. If you go with Hondata or any other EMS that utilizes a stock ECU, make sure you replace the electrolytic capacitors on the ECU up front. There are other options (like Neptune) and cheaper options, but Hondata has fairly wide support, which is why I chose it. S-AFC and V-AFC tuning was how we did it back in the early 2000's - I wouldn't recommend going that path unless you're building a period-correct early 2000's build.

Ah...embedded systems. I have a friend from college that worked for the government doing embedded systems. I can only imagine what they were actually up to. I'm a mechanical engineer, so I get the over-analysis thing. The good thing about Hondas is that unless you're going for some kind of record (which your goals do not imply that's the case), the recipe for the build is already out there. A lot of the things you're mentioning would likely not be necessary unless you were going for a record or were doing a high power NA build. Will those things hurt? Probably nothing but the budget/wallet. But cryo treatment, changing rod lengths, shot peening, etc., are not necessary.

If this were my build, for the bottom end I would go with a set of Darton MID sleeves, keep the bore at 87.0 mm, Manley Turbo-Tuff rods (or an H-beam would work too), a good 10.0:1 forged piston (CP, Wiseco, Arias, Traum, etc.) with thick wrist pins, stock crank, new oil pump, and fresh bearings and seals. I don't know much about the FRM sleeves and what pistons work/don't work, so personally I'd just sleeve it to open up options and not have to worry about it. This would just be MY preference - it sounds like the FRM sleeves can take some abuse if the correct piston is used.

 

I posted my internals for sale and other H23 parts since I've been convinced. I haven't made up my mind about mid sleeves or the Mahle pistons with appropriate coating for the FRM.

 

One thing important to remember about the H series is that if something goes wrong with the timing belt, then the pistons will hit the valves. I forgot the name for engines like this, it has a term for it. But I don't think most engines are like this, like the B series isn't like that. I used to have a turbocharged H22 in a 94 civic VX about ten years ago. I had the Unorthodox lightweight crankshaft pulley, because that's what it had on when I purchased it. I recommend not using the Unorthodox crankshaft pulley. Use the stock one, or a good quality one like the ATI racing damper. Make sure you properly torque the crankshaft pulley bolt. Long story short, for whatever reason, my timing belt pulley bolt went loose and all of the valves were smashed by the pistons, so I had to get all new valves and valve guides. Don't let that happen to you. I think it was the part, and not properly torquing the crankshaft pulley bolt. Also make sure you get a new timing belt tensioner. And I wouldn't use adjustable cam gears if I were you. I had stock cam gears, but the adjustable ones are just one more thing to go wrong, and only give slight increases in power after lots of tuning. I also used to hit the rev limiter often, like every day. So consider if you want an ignition cut rev limiter or fuel cut rev limiter.
Anyways, it was a whole lot of fun and the H series in the civic hatchback has a good power-to weight ratio. I had a limited slip differential, I had problems with wheel hop, even with a traction bar. The H series in a civic is front heavy. In a strait line its good, but you'll see what I mean once you have the H22 in the car and are driving it. It was very difficult to launch. In a strait line, it's plenty of power. You might even want a rear suspension that is set up for drag racing like the 1000lbs/inch springs, to give your front tires more traction.
Use the Hondata or equivalent. Don't mess with the Apexi AFC if you are looking for 500 horsepower, its just a fuel adjustment tool. If you really like the way they look, and they are a good quality part, you can still install one just to trim the fuel as an add on, but for all the other needs and goals you'll need something like Hondata or Neptune. The biggest injectors you can use with the Apexi AFC is 440cc, and you'll need much bigger injectors, so better to go with something that gives you more potential. I was using Precision 1000cc fuel injectors and the AEM fuel rail.
No need to shot peen the connecting rods as long as you go with an aftermarket forged rod that's a reliable brand. I haven't heard much need about cryo-treating the rotating assembly. You're better off getting your rotating assembly balanced and/or blueprinted. I used the stock H22 intake manifold in a 94 civic hatchback, but I'm not sure if the Del Sol engines bay is exactly the same length and width.
Good luck with the build! I think it's possible for less than 10k, but put most of the money into the engine block, then do more externals as you go.

 

Thank you for your information. I could get an ATI street crank pulley or ATI race crank pulley from the guy who sold me his h2b kit and heads. They were never used.

Interference vs non-interference motors. I assumed all D/B/F/H motors were interference but I never looked into it. I'm now curious if you can make an interference motor become non-interference with lower compression pistons, destroking, shorter rods, or high wrist pin placement. I know lowering compression too much defeats most of the purpose of building it. Making up for it with a massive turbo isn't practical with the tight spaces in the engine bay since I want to retain power steering. I'd love to keep A/C on it but I assume I will need all the space for an intercooler, radiator, and oil cooler. Plus there is a back window so keeping A/C would be done just to say I did it since it's not practical to find room for the bigger motor, turbo, and supporting mods.

Did you use loctite on the crank pulley bolt?
I've hear mixed reviews of using lightened crank pullies. I assumed the oem harmonic balancer was ideal to prevent premature main bearing failure. Mostly from theories in the early 2000 era...the ATI pulley I had never heard of until I picked up the parts from Milwaukee area a couple weeks ago.

 

Yes, OEM or ATI is what I suggest. No unorthodox crankshaft pulleys, because I heard other stories of them having problems.

 

I can confirm that both D and B series engines are interference engines also. The performance loss from trying to make an interference engine a non-interference engine is likely not worth it, but I've never looked into it.

 

I got more parts and ran into an issue.
GSR transmission and axles
ACT flywheel
Competition Clutch 4 puck
Innovative EG t-bracket (ISSUE)

The tbracket width matches the width of the block for the top bolt towards the front of the car. The QSD kit has the spacer plate so I would imagine the tbracket has to be wide enough to include the plate. The QSD h2b FAQ says an OEM tbracket for EG is the one to use. I am planning to modify the Innovative EG mount unless someone has some better advice.