What's up all,

I'm very new to the Honda game, I know very minimal. I'm wondering what would be some good ways to build the current engine I have (stated F23a1) obvious answer is swap in a K20, H22 etc etc but simply put it's not a car I'm looking to achieve LARGE numbers from. 200-215 would be fine with minimal problems as to it is my daily just looking to pep it up some.

I've already ordered as follows
- DC sports 4-2-1 Header
- High flow catalytic converter
- Catback yonaka
- AEM SRI (custom diamond plate heat shield) surrounding

I know I know this is the simple approach lol but it's the start to grab what 5/10hp gains if that. But I'm looking at upgrading to a skunk2 racing intake manifold, upgraded walbro 190 highflow fuel pump and a Underdrive pulley kit as to I'm about to do the timing belt job. Also car is a 5-speed.

Any information would be greatly appreciated! If not bump be into the right direction on the forum for other threads!

P.S- I've read about a F22 head swap?? Worth it or not or even possible?

 

You are not going to make 200-215hp on a single cam without boost or gross misuse of funds. Swap it out for an H22/H23A, boost it, or lower your expectations.

 

Turbocharging is the best performance honda experience.

It costs less than you think to do it. under $4-500 for a basic package.

 

Okay I wasn't sure if it was achievable with the right upgrades. Now I'm not necessarily saying 200-215 wheel HP but to the crank? Stock "claims" 152hp at 5700rpm at the crank.
So with a header, full exhaust, Underdrive pulley kit, upgraded full pump, skunk2 racing intake manifold, SRI, Lightweight cam pulley and eventually a light weight flywheel with a good upgraded clutch kit if that would be enough to get that 50hp at 5700rpms?

How much or where can I get a H22 from long block and i can build in my garage till I get everything to swap? If I even do... being how it is a daily for work keep the miles off my truck.

 

Maybe any information on what/where to get said parts? Maybe a junk yard grab a turbo kit off a wrecked car? Or we talking ebay lol?

 

ebay. no intercooler. like 80's Lotus. On $9 chip kit with Crome Gold.

 

Or Hondata Precision and Tial. $$$




Very similar results.

 

[QUOTE=2001GSRSC;52302684]ebay. no intercooler. like 80's Lotus. On $9 chip kit with Crome Gold.

Alright I'll look into it. No issues with reliability without an intercooler to turbo and engine? Like stated still new to the Honda game. I've always owned VWs so just APR, downpipe etc and boom power lol.
Is it truth that the F23 can handle 7psi on stock internals and be safe? I've read that a few times in the forum boards.

 

[QUOTE=Rox-Drop_6thgen;52302692]I drove it. There are always tuning issues. Most people can figure it out. There will be challenges along the way. Not gonna lie.

Yes, it will be reliable with 1 bar. And net more than 200 whp.

 

You will not gain even close to 50hp on any naturally aspirated Honda 4 cylinder with any amount of bolt on parts. I don't believe Skunk2 makes a manifold for the F23 but the F23 intake manifold is very good anyway. The lightweight pulleys are pointless.

Since it's your daily, I would honestly recommend a swap then instead of boost. Whatever you do, if anything, make sure you do it once and do it right. There's nothing more irritating than a daily that's constantly broken or having some sort of reliability issue.


No form of intercooling will mean a very hot air charge in the summer, potentially leading to detonation issues which will easily kill the puny cast pistons in the stock engine if the tune is not perfect.

PSI is irrelevant and instead torque will be the limiting factor on a stock block. To keep it safe and reliable I wouldn't go past 250whp/250tq, anything further is getting into the risky area.

For boost you will also need fuel system, engine management, clutch, and exhaust just to get it running. To make it safe you will need to upgrade brakes, tires, and stiffen the suspension a bit as well. Remember that you have a 19 year old family sedan designed to go A to B and carry groceries. It's not a sports car.

 

Where I ran into problems was standing in traffic for 30-45min. Or waiting for a person at idle for a long time engine running. Fix. Shut the engine off. Start it up when the blockade moves.

Moving and light to light..no issues. IATs were ok. 140's.

The whole apparatus acts as a heat sink on the front of engine. Trapping the heat at the front.

Many production vehicles in the 80's were factory turbocharged and had no intercoolers.

 

Car was boosted 10 years ago at least. Any price list would not be accurate. guessing.

T3/4 was $89
manifold log $45
BOV and wastegate set DNA $30
Downpipe was $80
Injectors $40 had to get own flow data.
Fuel pump $20 china walbro knock off
$9 chip kit with free Crome Gold
sandwhich and braids $40
Bung oilpan $5

no idea current prices.

I had old CAI's tubing clamps and silicone joiners..that stuff can add up.

It cost less to turbocharge than to do a brand CAIntake/Header/Exhaust.

 

140 isn't that bad but that definitely lowers the margin of safety on a stock engine. For peace of mind and efficiency I would rather throw in a small air-to-air intercooler and get the average IAT down in the 100-110 range. Every 10 degrees you drop the IATs you gain around 1% power. There's really nothing to lose by adding one. It's not that much more expensive and the piping isn't that much more complex. At higher boost levels or if using a smallish turbo the IAT difference between a non-intercooled and intercooled setup will become much more pronounced though.

 

It was the simplest way I could come up with. It was to get ones foot in the boost door. Once you get the power, and make the Pst Pst noises shifting around town, they will be hooked.

Then in a year or so you prioritize and save up a couple grand. Then build it better. Faster. Stronger. Percision Tech, Turbonetics, Tial, GReddy...

Yeah, you want to use a intercooler. I was just poor.

 

Simply offering a different suggestion than a turbo. Take your nice f23a and just replace the head with an F22 and you will be around the 200 mark just with that. Don't mess cam or anything else. Very solid, less heat, about the same price as the cheap turbo setup.

Just a thought.

 

F? 22 head? Really I heard about H22 head swap, the F22 is worth something?

 

Ports on an F22A_ head are similar if not identical to an H23 non-VTEC. if you can get the cam and valve train right you can look at it like a more space-efficient H23 head swap (no hood spacers required for Civic swaps) it's not going to do much for an F23 bottom end in stock form but it does open up the potential to make power from non-FI mods.

other considerations with F22A head // F23A block:
-the F23 intake and exhaust manifolds will not bolt up to the F22A head. there are other good options but they aren't free (normally)
-high compression pistons are probably a must for a satisfactory power result
-F23 distributor... maybe it would work, but I've never tried it myself.

OP- personally i would send back everything listed that you bought and spend that money instead on better gearing for that trans. or just swap it out for an H22 trans if you can find one. it will drive like you have an extra 30hp

 

That's what I've read and was told by a guy locally who deals with Honda. So does it bolt up without issues and runs fine? Do I have to have it tuned etc or is it more of a bolt on application? Crank it up and go?

 

[QUOTE=hondamark35;52303193OP- personally i would send back everything listed that you bought and spend that money instead on better gearing for that trans. or just swap it out for an H22 trans if you can find one. it will drive like you have an extra 30hp[/QUOTE]

Does the h22 bolt right on? I'm still learning all the different things you can swap etc between all the Series lol. This is all a learning curve for me. I ain't looking to make it some race car and I completely understand it's a 4door family sedan just looking to pep it up some and make it clean looking.

 

To put the F22a head on the F23a I believe all you do is remove the oil blocking plug so that it works.

For more specifics on the heads that work and such, look here:
https://www.kstuned.com/blogs/knowle...me-deck-height

 

Like hondamark said though, F22Ax head on an F23 bottom end is totally pointless without a cam, valve springs/retainers, etc. It's not going to make anymore power in stock form. There's also the issue that the intake and exhaust manifolds for the F22A will have to be used and modified to fit.

The only build I've seen with an F22Ax head and F23 bottom end was putting down around 175whp. That included a cam regrind, springs/retainers, and K20 pistons. All that is more than an H23A blue top swap which will put down 200-210whp depending on the model used. H22 swap is a little less power, same cost.

No need to reinvent the wheel where. Keep it simple stupid. Do the H swap, a mild turbo setup, or leave it alone.

 

A nice turbo H22 would be so sweet.

 

This build in an Integra made 194whp

not really a peak-power set up with the F23 crank. it's about decent torque that still revs out ok.

And should something go wrong, one could be quickly rebuild with parts found in most any self-serve salvage yard. my local pull-a-part currently has 18 accords that potentially have F23 short blocks to grab and 5 with F22A_ heads. zero preludes. I know this isn't important for everyone but still worth mentioning.

 

I'm certain the H22 trans will bolt to the block. not 100% sure about the mount bracket but I know this has been a common upgrade so hopefully someone can verify.

drivers of family sedans still deserve to have fun even if they aren't going fast or winning races. I get it.

 

Thanks everyone for the information!

I've decided to go with a T3 setup that will be slowly built before spring just depends on OT and family time lol. For now over the past few weeks I've talked to a few local performance shops and got some prices on certain parts. But for now I've done some preventative maintenance and replaced a few things.

• Timing belt with new pulleys
• Water pump as'well
• P. Steering pump
• High output Alternator
• Oil pan gasket
• Valve cover gasket with S. Plug rings
• New drivebelts

That's all for now just going to drive it and save up for the turbo setup. Before install I will be replacing my clutch and components also. Only planning to run 6/7psi. If there is anything else I should plan to replace let me know!? I've heard the F23 can handle that daily driven with no issues! So will see lol.