I'm putting a timing belt on a B18C, I'm doing it by the book - align cam gears with crank mark on oil pump and then install the belt in the correct sequence.
But when I go to put tension on the belt the crank turns on its own slightly (the cam gears don't) so then its all slightly out of alignment.

Why does he crank turns on its own?
To try and fix overcome this, I set the crank mark a few degrees to the right so it's just before TDC and then put the belt on so when tensioned and the crank turns on its own it will eventually line up with the cam gears marks but is still seem to find its own position to as before.

As it sits in this condition the cam gears are 1/2 tooth out each from being lined up when thecrank is at TDC. Would pistpn to valve conact be possible here with this?
It has Brian Crower stage 2 cams and stock B18C pistons.



Thanks,

 

ALWAYS....set the crank pulley to TDC and then align the cam gears, not the other way around. Do you have aftermarket adjustable cam gears or stock?? Yes, it makes a difference.

 

Aftermarket, how it sits now when crank at TDC:

 

Your head and block have been milled enough (or you have a very thin head gasket) to retard TDC at the crankshaft slightly when the cam gears are properly aligned... this is not anything to be concerned about IF you are going to DEGREE your camshafts.

 

It has a new OEM gasket.
So going by the photo, if both cams are advanced slightly that should realign them?

 

Is there any reason why you cant degree cams less than 1 deg? In this case it doesn't even need to be adjusted up to 1 degree to get lined up - its not far off as it stands.
About 1/2 degree on each cam would line both up again.

Thanks,

 

OP, this all comes down to how well you want the engine to run. Degreeing the cams will make it perfect... trying to talk yourself out of doing so based on how "little" you believe the adjustment distance might be leaves performance on the table. Based on the cam gear marks in your photo above, your camshafts are retarded WAY more than a degree right now...

Line the cam gear marks level at TDC and post a picture of the TDC mark on the crank pulley... and remember that the distance between the white TDC mark and the red mark is 16 degrees. Being retarded just 1/2 degree would mean that the pointer on the lower cover would only be equal to about 1/32 of the distance between the white and red marks. I am betting it is much greater than this.

 

JRCivic1,

Here is the position of the TDC mark when the cam gears marks are aligned. Its past TDC.
I used a screwdriver down the spark plug hole and just after the dwell period at TDC the cam marks line up and at this point the cranks just starts to go down.





I understand what you are saying about degreeing which will make it run better.
To not complicate things further, if I simply advance both cams by how much the marks is of TDC at the minute (around 1/2 a tooth turn each) that should bring it back to TDC, because when the crank is at TDC the mark on the exhaust cam has jst past TDC and the mark on the intake it just before TDC.
I'm just trying to determine if I can start the engine for the 1st time to at least get it running as it sits now without piston to valve contact concerns. Then it there is no oil leaks etc,etc it will put onto the dyno for initial tuning and run in. It will be at that point where the I can then determine with the tuners expertise what retard and advance works best.


Thanks,

 

Assuming for a moment that your crank pulley key way slot is perfect and undamaged, and the crank shaft key way slot is also nice and crisp... and you are using a genuine Honda woodruff key, I would say based on your photo above that you would need to advance both cam gears 4-5 crank degrees to compliment the retarding at the crank pulley shown. Wouldn't you agree that the distance from the white TDC mark on the pulley and where the timing cover currently points to at the crank pulley would appear to equal between 1/4 and 1/3 of the distance between the white TDC mark and the red 16' mark ?

I believe your head and/or block have been milled a bit more than you think.

 

All that your tuner can do is "Try" different combinations in moving your camshafts... there is no set values for what retard and advance works best. THIS IS WHAT DEGREEING DOES !!!

 

DID YOU EVEN READ WHAT I WROTE? SMH....

 

NVturbo,

I did read it yes.
The crank was set at TDC 1st and then the cams but as I said when the tension is put on the belt the cranks turn 1st before the cams due to the head being resurfaced.
Once this happens the cams are not in time with the crank. i.e. as in the photo.

 

JRCivic1,


Yes its has the OEM key with no damage and a new OEM pulley.

'I would say based on your photo above that you would need to advance both cam gears 4-5 crank degrees to compliment the retarding at the crank pulley shown'

Ok, so that makes sense as you say based how te white mark is past the TDC cover mark.
But just for reference, if you were to advance both cams based on how much each is currently away from TDC the it would only need about 1/2 deg each to bring it to TDC.

 

Nope. It would need 2 -2.5 degrees of cam advance, which would be exactly HALF of what you see at the crank pulley, to get the cams at TDC when the crankshaft is at TDC. All this does is get the cams and crank to the OEM position... nothing more. This is NOT degreeing the cams. Maximum performance will still be found with the cams moved somewhere else.

 

Ok. Yeah that's all I'am looking for right now for the initial start up to get them to the OEM TDC position. Then start tuning after the run have being run in from there.
Just trying to avoid piston to valve contact here now.