Honda Civic / Del Sol (1992 - 2000) EG/EH/EJ/EK/EM1 Discussion

Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 9, 2020 | 04:51 AM
  #1  
D16HighMileage's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 23
From: Northwood, NH
Default Replaced steering rack, now won't start

1999 Honda Civic EX 1.6L 2 door coupe D16y8
Replaced the power steering rack and now it won't start. Strange. It does crank over (starter sounds healthy). Battery fully charged. Fuel pump primes. New alternator. Everything worked fine before the rack replacement. Is it even possible I could have missed something that could result in a no start situation? It was running fine before I parked it in my garage (ended up being 3 weeks) to replace the rack. This has me perplexed. Or pure coincidence?
I wonder if the starter is failing. Although it does spin the engine, it makes a continuous cranking sound, as apposed to a more rhythmic cranking sound when attempting to start.

Last edited by D16HighMileage; Jul 9, 2020 at 05:17 AM.
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2020 | 06:42 AM
  #2  
muellersfan's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 349
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Do the drive belts spin when you crank the engine?

Bright spark at the plugs?
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2020 | 11:42 AM
  #3  
wunfstgsr's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
15 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 9,843
Likes: 320
From: san diego, ca
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

You can try to pop start it in 1st gear if its a 5spd to see if its a bad or weak starter. Double check the alternator connections since you replaced that too.
Reply
Old Jul 9, 2020 | 05:01 PM
  #4  
tony_2018's Avatar
Fish Twig
 
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 15,554
Likes: 309
From: Still hunting that foo up there
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

fuel pump priming?
Reply
Old Jul 11, 2020 | 10:15 AM
  #5  
D16HighMileage's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 23
From: Northwood, NH
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by muellersfan
Do the drive belts spin when you crank the engine?

Bright spark at the plugs?
@muellersfan, yes the belts do spin. It's gonna be some strange coincidence that I happened to replace the steering rack and now I have a no start condition.
So.... I've done the tests on the distributor as mentioned in the Haynes manual. All checks out. BUT...... I noticed the roter appeared burnt on the end (the magnetic end). I could be getting weak spark. I know I'm getting fuel (pulled the fuel line to the rail, turned key to ON, the pump primed and fuel spilled out of the line.)
I plugged a spark tester on one of the wires and the bulb did pulse. But again, it might be weak spark.
I'm doing more tests this week
As for the alternator, that was replaced months ago so I'm certain that is not to blame. All fuses are good by the way.
Reply
Old Jul 11, 2020 | 02:32 PM
  #6  
muellersfan's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 349
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

The starter is cranking the engine.

Did you unplug the fuel injector clips or spark plug wires for the rack job?

Did you unplug some engine sensor connectors during your rack work? For example, a common mistake is to swap the 2-pin IAT sensor and power steering pressure connectors.

Stay focused on No-Start 101 diagnostics.

Have you checked the mechanical timing?

Any CEL codes?

If all above are fine, compression test the cylinders.

Last edited by muellersfan; Jul 11, 2020 at 03:02 PM.
Reply
Old Jul 11, 2020 | 03:59 PM
  #7  
D16HighMileage's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 23
From: Northwood, NH
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by muellersfan
The starter is cranking the engine.

Did you unplug the fuel injector clips or spark plug wires for the rack job?

Did you unplug some engine sensor connectors during your rack work? For example, a common mistake is to swap the 2-pin IAT sensor and power steering pressure connectors.

Stay focused on No-Start 101 diagnostics.

Have you checked the mechanical timing?

Any CEL codes?

If all above are fine, compression test the cylinders.
@muellersfan No CEL. Timing was never changed prior to rack replacement. Never unplugged spark plug wires or fuel injector clips. Regarding the common mistake of swapping the IAT and PS press. connector..... The IAT I assume plugs into the intake tube, but the PS press. connector can't even reach the intake tube to be accidentally swapped right? Regardless, I never unplugged either of them. I don't recall unplugging any such sensors , except the obvious O2 sensors to drop the exhaust to get the steering rack out.
To clarify, the car was running fine before. I parked it in garage for the rack replacement. Sat for about 2 months while I worked on it here and there. Gotta be something simple. My guess is by sheer coincidence the distributor rotor went bad. It is burnt on the end as mentioned. I have another distributor from another Civic I'm gonna test it with to be sure.

Last edited by D16HighMileage; Jul 11, 2020 at 04:20 PM.
Reply
Old Jul 11, 2020 | 04:19 PM
  #8  
muellersfan's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 349
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by D16HighMileage
No CEL.
Regarding the common mistake of swapping the IAT and PS press. connector..... What sensors are these exactly? The IAT I assume plugs into the intake tube, but where is this PS press. connector? I can't see how I could have swapped any sensors but it's possible I suppose. In fact, I don't recall unplugging any such sensors , except the obvious O2 sensors to drop the exhaust to get the steering rack out.
Swapping the IAT sensor and PS pressure connectors can blow the ECU without throwing a CEL. If you only disconnected the O2 sensor, then a connector swap seems unlikely. To be safe, however, you might consider posting pics of the connector wires for the IAT sensor and PSP switch, which is located under the IM above the rack. I think PSP has a green wire and a black wire.

Timing was never changed prior to rack replacement.
Timing belts can skip a tooth even when just cranking the engine.

My guess is by sheer coincidence the distributor rotor went bad. It is burnt on the end as mentioned.
Post a picture. Weak spark could cause a no start. If the rotor is the culprit, then the coil may have been damaged.
Reply
Old Jul 11, 2020 | 04:39 PM
  #9  
D16HighMileage's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 23
From: Northwood, NH
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by muellersfan
Swapping the IAT sensor and PS pressure connectors can blow the ECU without throwing a CEL. If you only disconnected the O2 sensor, then a connector swap seems unlikely. To be safe, however, you might consider posting pics of the connector wires for the IAT sensor and PSP switch, which is located under the IM above the rack. I think PSP has a green wire and a black wire.



Timing belts can skip a tooth even when just cranking the engine.



Post a picture. Weak spark could cause a no start. If the rotor is the culprit, then the coil may have been damaged.
@muellersfan How's my rotor look. Toast? FYI, I already pulled the distributor. Getting ready to test another one. I have a spare Carquest (new) one I'll be testing in a day or two. I'm hoping this is the culprit. Maybe moisture got inside the cap during the several weeks it sat in my garage?





This is the correct wire orientation right? Just making sure :

Reply
Old Jul 11, 2020 | 05:43 PM
  #10  
muellersfan's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 349
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

You can lightly sand the rotor contact point, but it doesn't look too bad.

How do the points inside distributor cap look?

I haven't used a spark tester. How do the instructions tell you to interpret the result?

Yes, the diagram is correct for the plug wire firing order.

Have you verified the fuel injectors are pulsing fuel?

Is it possible the cylinders are fuel flooded? This would lower compression and cause a no start. This may be consistent with the abnormal cranking sound you mentioned.
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2020 | 03:36 AM
  #11  
D16HighMileage's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 23
From: Northwood, NH
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by muellersfan
You can lightly sand the rotor contact point, but it doesn't look too bad.

How do the points inside distributor cap look?

I haven't used a spark tester. How do the instructions tell you to interpret the result?

Yes, the diagram is correct for the plug wire firing order.

Have you verified the fuel injectors are pulsing fuel?

Is it possible the cylinders are fuel flooded? This would lower compression and cause a no start. This may be consistent with the abnormal cranking sound you mentioned.
@muellersfan Points inside distributer cap look fine.
So this spark tester I just got is one that simply plugs into the plug wire and has a bulb that lights when that cylinder fires. Pretty basic.
I haven't verified the injectors are pulsing yet. I'll do this next. Would there be a reason that suddenly there'd be an injection issue? It may be possible the cylinders are flooded. But why I don't know. I'll crank engine over with plugs out to force any gas out.
I can't stress enough how strange this is. Car was fine and I was daily driving it until I parked it in garage to replace the steering rack.
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2020 | 04:21 AM
  #12  
muellersfan's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 349
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Strange things happen. Stay focused on basic no-start diagnostics.

Crank engine for 30 seconds. Pull the plugs. Do they have a strong smell of fuel?
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2020 | 06:54 AM
  #13  
D16HighMileage's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 23
From: Northwood, NH
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by muellersfan
Strange things happen. Stay focused on basic no-start diagnostics.

Crank engine for 30 seconds. Pull the plugs. Do they have a strong smell of fuel?
@muellersfan Is it common for these older Hondas to experience leaky injectors? As in, if the car sits for a while, could the injectors leak fuel into the cylinders, causing a no start situation like I have now?
I'll be performing the test you mentioned above, as well as the others previously suggested, in a few days.
Reply
Old Jul 12, 2020 | 09:08 AM
  #14  
muellersfan's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 349
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by D16HighMileage
Is it common for these older Hondas to experience leaky injectors? As in, if the car sits for a while, could the injectors leak fuel into the cylinders, causing a no start situation like I have now?
I don't think so.

I'll be performing the test you mentioned above, as well as the others previously suggested, in a few days.
Reply
Old Jul 14, 2020 | 08:26 AM
  #15  
muellersfan's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 349
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by D16HighMileage
Is this the correct order for installing the idler pulley? I keep getting clearance/rubbing issues. Which way does the exposed bearing face? Towards the engine?
https://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda/...&assembly=1691

I believe your top pic shows pulley rear side.

Use diagram at link also to ensure that you have all parts and that your are assembling them in the correct sequence. The latter is a common problem.

In your pictures, you seem to missing the rear and front pulley face plates.
Reply
Old Jul 14, 2020 | 08:53 AM
  #16  
D16HighMileage's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 23
From: Northwood, NH
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by muellersfan
https://www.bernardiparts.com/Honda/...&assembly=1691

I believe your top pic shows pulley rear side.

Use diagram at link also to ensure that you have all parts and that your are assembling them in the correct sequence. The latter is a common problem.

In your pictures, you seem to missing the rear and front pulley face plates.
It looks as though 2 different pully assemblies are used. Anyway, I figured it out. I had the spacer on the wrong end, causing rubbing against the bracket.
By the way. It appears as though I've figured it out. Not knowing exactly what "it" is. Replaced the complete distributor. Car started right up. Perhaps it was the rotor, perhaps something internal I missed. I never "throw parts at it" but in this case I just swapped the whole thing to see what'd happen. Looks like this mini nightmare may be over. It's due now for a timing belt service, so I may look into that next. I'd be paying a shop because I fear I wouldn't get it on correctly and completely screw up the timing and such. Would you recommend dealer service or a private mechanic? I don't know any reliable Honda techs near me.
Reply
Old Jul 14, 2020 | 09:07 AM
  #17  
muellersfan's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 349
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by D16HighMileage
It won't do any harm without them I'm assuming.
I'm skeptical.

By the way. It appears as though I've figured it out. Not knowing exactly what "it" is. Replaced the complete distributor. Car started right up.
Perhaps your spark detector device fails to recognize weak spark.

Would you recommend dealer service or a private mechanic? I don't know any reliable Honda techs near me.
Skip hiring a mechanic and instead spend the money on a good Milwaukee impact wrench. Removing the crank pulley bolt is by far the most difficult part of the job. A good impact wrench will remove the crank bolt in about 2 seconds or less.

And buy only HONDA parts for the job - water pump, timing belt, valve cover gasket, oil seals, drive belts, etc.
Reply
Old Jul 14, 2020 | 09:09 AM
  #18  
D16HighMileage's Avatar
Thread Starter
Honda-Tech Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 108
Likes: 23
From: Northwood, NH
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

Originally Posted by muellersfan
I'm skeptical.



Perhaps your spark detector device fails to recognize weak spark.



Skip hiring a mechanic and instead spend the money on a good Milwaukee impact wrench. Removing the crank pulley bolt is by far the most difficult part of the job.

And buy only parts for the job - water pump, timing belt, valve cover gasket, oil seals, drive belts, etc.
Ha, I've heard about this infamous crank bolt. Yea, maybe I'll give it a go myself. I know I'm capable if I take my time. Thanks@muellersfan
Reply
Old Jul 14, 2020 | 09:49 AM
  #19  
muellersfan's Avatar
Honda-Tech Member
 
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,716
Likes: 349
Default Re: Replaced steering rack, now won't start

This accessory turbocharges even a good impact wrench.


Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
r22thomas
Suspension & Brakes
5
Aug 10, 2011 11:18 AM
sathyar123
Honda Accord (1990 - 2002)
1
Apr 2, 2004 10:03 AM




All times are GMT -8. The time now is 07:58 PM.