I am looking to stick with a 16x8 wheel as fitment is decent and its a good balance between what I like in both a 15 and 17 inch wheel. I am going to pick up a second set of RPF1s at some point in the near future and I am looking at tire options.

I currently run the Direzza ZIII's in the 225/45/16. I like the predictability they provide and are forgiving when overdriven. I rode in my instructors car with a 205 width RE71R and it felt like those had GOBS more grip and was very impressed.

My options for the second set of wheels are the 225/50/16 RE71R (no 45 series available), 225/45/16 Toyo R888R, or a second set of Direzza ZIIIs. With each generation of tire they all get small changes for better and worse but I wanted to get some feedback here with the FWD platform that most of us use (barring the weirdo S2000 guy (BM)) so we are talking about the latest version of each of these options. Thoughts?

Thanks for your input!

 

I'm going to tell you what the long standing Honda Challenge answer is... H1 class... and its as big as it can in a DC/EG chassis with massaging

255/45/17 - all 4 corners
17x9 - all 4 corners (I have no idea what the offset it... but Chad might)

you will roll and pull on fenders... you will notch the trailing arm (I'm 99.9% sure of this)

tire options: Hankook R-S4, Yokahama Advan AD08, RE-71R, Falken Azenis 615, V720 (don't buy this one), Rival S 1.5, ZIII, R1R, A052, etc. etc. etc

 

JC! 255 square? Ha ok, well I may need to rethink what I am doing here. Yeah the 16x8 RPF1 +38 with no spacer is really close to the RTA. Unless I run a spacer and some ridiculous rocketbunny fender kit with a 17x9, the RTA will have to be notched and boxed. I take it they are able to get enough heat in the rear with a 255? Hmm man you threw my thinking out the window. Thanks

 

look up the Hasport H1 Integra... there is an article in SuperStreet or something from back in the day. it can be done

 

245/40/15 Rival 1.5 S on a 15x10

 

15s wont fit my front brakes unfortunately, just for pure tire choice 15s or 17s would have been best but in my opinion 16s work really well all around on the eg chassis just wish there were more tire choices. I know Speed Academy did some track testing and the larger 17 inch wheel/tire turned consistently faster lap times over the 15s. It may have just worked best for the track they were on and keeping the amount of shifts down etc.

 

Probably track dependent on the gearing change. I know my old car went faster on 17’s because it let me stay in 4th on the straights vs 5th which was very tall.

 

What is the car being driven for? RE-71r are great sticky tires, but will overheat quickly if you're trying to push them for a whole session on track. They are the best street tire for autocross.

What brakes are you running? I fit 11.75" Wilwoods under 15x9 wheels thanks to spacers and additional offset. You'll have a lot more tire options in a 15" or 17" wheel.

I'm a big fan of the Maxxis RC-1 for track day tires. They may not be the absolute fastest of the 100tw tire category, but the are pretty sticky, tolerate heat well and last a long time. They, like many tires are only available in 15 and 17"

 

Right now the car is being used for HPDE weekends. Once I have achieved HPDE4 I plan on applying for the TT license and spec'ing the car for TT1. Brakes are Wilwood 4 pot billets with 12.19 2 piece rotors up front and factory rear caliper with a hawk/brembo combination. Its looking like I may have to go up to a 17x9 once the car is at the TT1 level but for now, I am probably going to stay on the 16x8s and a work with a 225-245 width.

 

what's your experience level?

 

Some experience from a while back (12 years ago) but pretty much starting over and climbing the Nasa ladder. Currently HPDE1 approved for Solo, received 5's on everything except one 4 on eyes up.

 

Awesome!! I would recommend the Direzza Ziii's then if you're still climbing the ladder.

Basically any tire that has good rain distribution and that will last. You wanna focus on learning to drive it like a momentum car before you start getting more grip.

And when you think you're ready to move up from a less grippy tire, there's almost always something more to learn.

FWIW I really liked the Nitto NT05 when I was in DE1 and 2 and even 3. It had terrible rain distribution, but it was a long-lasting tire.

My progression before I started racing was:

1.) Max performance summer for a season of autocross and track days
2.) Extreme performance summer (NT05s) for a little over a season of track days
3.) DOT-legal 100 TWs (NT01s) for a little over a season of track days
4.) Toyo RRs for Honda Challenge.

 

Thanks! I appreciate the progression info it is very helpful. It makes good sense to run the 200tw for a while and work into the other stickier compounds as I progress and get the car setup better. I have the Z3s on it now and I do like them. I had a some decent over-steer on T14 full course VIR and was able to manage it and keep the car going in the right direction, they are definitely forgiving. I don't typically drive the car in sub-optimal weather so a rainy track day will be interesting and a good learning experience. I think these tires have more grip to give, I just don't think I have maximized the alignment, sway bars, and damper settings yet. The front needs more camber, the fix for that is in progress =-)

 

I'm glad you're receptive to what I had to say!

The 200 TW tires will always be more forgiving than the faster stuff. Yes they may allow the car to oversteer or understeer more, but learning to be fast IN SPITE of your car's tendency to handle a certain way will make you faster in the long run. Car understeering? Use throttle and brake inputs to rotate the car into the corner and pull yourself out. Car oversteering? Learn to be gentle with the wheel and avoid trailbraking, be heavy on throttle at the exit.

Learn to be fast in the rain and you will understand just how sensitive the contact patch is to your inputs. This will help you become a smoother driver.

I think I aligned my car once over the course of 2 seasons of HPDE (a full season of NASA NE events and some TNiA stuff and private track days as well).

The car was loose and scary, but learning to drive around that honed car control.

You're doing great bro keep it up.

 

Thank you!
Absolutely, there are tons of folks that have more experience than me road racing and it is nice to see people willing to help out. I got a late start getting into the TT and road racing scene, lol I am an old man by auto racing standards. One thing I have learned is pride and machismo tend to shorten one's ability to learn. You guys offer free advice that is acquired over years of trying things, testing theory, recording the smallest details to get things working right and for that I am grateful. I am a big proponent to listening, learning, and improving the wheel rather than reinventing it. I am super appreciative of all constructive advice on a platform like this because it helps others that read it long with myself. A somewhat inebriated track sage once told me "Regardless of any differences, we are all brothers and sisters in speed". Folks in this community are open and always willing to share information and help others out, that in my opinion, makes it worth the price of admission.

 

well said my friend

 

Thanks brother!

Once I have these Z3s working optimally and I was to stay on 16x8s for a while what do you guys think about the R888Rs in the 245/45/16? Has anyone run that width on an 8 inch wheel with any success (Toyo recommends 7.5-9 in wheel)? I could add a little rear camber and I would think they would fit on the rear without having to notch the RTA for clearance. Overall diameter would go up from current 23.9 to 24.6, section width go up from 8.9 to 9.6 in.

I wont be doing this until I feel good on 200tw but I just want to get some thoughts for the future planning. It will be a while before I need to go up to a larger wheel.

 

A 245 is going to work best on a 9 or 10" wheel. I'd be afraid it would feel too sloppy on an 8" wheel.

 

Is that true for the sidewall thickness of an R888R? We run 225 on a x7" wheel fine for a Toyo RR.

What are your goals? If you're aiming for a spec tire class then try to hone your skills on that tire. How do you know you'll have enough weight, spring, tire to heat a tire that wide? Not saying you won't just trying to get you thinking.

With the right offset I don't think you need to notch the RTA on older Civics for clearance. I could be wrong though.

 

Good point, not sure what the characteristics are of the R888R Toyo strangely enough recommends a 7.5-9 inch wide wheel for the 245


.
The goal right now is to run HPDE until I can get my TT license, then spec it for TT1. Over a couple of seasons mod the car in that direction so that I get progressively used to the car as it evolves with more spring, aero, tire width, brake, and power. I just like to start planning in advance for the things I need to budget for. I believe its +.5 for 100UTQG, and +.3 for 244-267mm tires so that r888r seems to work for TT1.

Right now I have a +38 16x8, I was looking at the Dekagrams in a +35 16x8 for the R888Rs.

 

I also think it had less to do with overall diameter (17" vs. 15") and more with increased response from a smaller sidewall and better gearing for that track.

I went from 16x8's to 15x9's (245/40/15). Almost the footprint of a 255/40/17, but less weight and 2" smaller diameter to help with gearing. Bigger brakes usually cost points in TT. Are you sure you need them?

 

I think he could get away with the STL sized brakes in a TT format .... but with is HP/weight/tires/etc. i think he needs to keep the biggest brakes he can while still in the HPDE program.

I think he should abandon the TT format and come make H1 great again. But we have a lot of beers to drink before he's ready to to decided... so i have time to convince him.

 

Yeah why attack time when you can attack beers

 

Good point, yeah Dave (SpeedAcademy) was saying he was able to use 2nd gear a bit more out of some of the corners and they helped keep an additional shift from happening down the front straight. I like the idea about lighter tire with the same contact patch, the width is almost the same but what about contact patch length is that still similar? I know I noticed the reduction of reciprocating weight with the light wheels, and lightweight 2 piece rotors, that made a big difference in overall response. I think in my case the additional tire diameter with the 245/45/16 R888R would eliminate the need to shift into 6th on the front straight at VIR, should be able to hold 5th gear all the way to the brake marker. As far as brakes, I could go with a 11.75 rotor and a 6 pot stoptech or wilwood if I needed the points. I really like how these 12.2s feel though.

MH1GA? That would be a good plate..

See the thing is, I need a second car for H1. The EG is a princess. I need a K-series DC2 for H1, preferably a shell that is already caged and ready to go (with some rubber already on the paint). I would get grumpy if someone rubbed up on princess.

I am looking forward to your Bell's Clone with your suspicious aeration techniques, Ill bring you a few of my dubbels in August for your honest opinion.


Ha! The strange thing is I think I look forward to the beer after the sessions are over more than the actual driving.

 

you can have my old DC2 shell... she's ready to be beat on. but it needs a cage. 2 race cars? Kids? I'm in the wrong line of business.

we MA folk don't like to trade a lot of paint. Front and rear bumpers from some minor bumping, but we keep it clean. there has been very minor contact this year overall.

Brents JDM front DC2 was an award winning show car. and now look... its just a pretty race car (that's getting to the front).