Opinions? F swap with F2D? Cost vs HP NA build (noob)
Hey folks,
I'm picking up a clean stock 89 CRX HF tomorrow morning as a new project. Total last minute decision. I've been trying to read up as much as I can the last week or so, but forgive me for any ignorance. I don't have any first hand experience with CRX's. My boy had an ITR, we rebuilt the b18c5 a few times over the years. Just wouldn't hold up to the kind of abuse he'd put it though but would pull hard. Would always end with rod noise though. The last time I killed it cruising at 150ish or whatever 6th is at redline for about 4 minutes at 3am in "Mexico", two weeks later lovely rod knock noise was back. He told me to send it, send it I did. Ended up going k20a and it was a champ, extreme abuse and never any issues. Swapping in a K is out of the question in my case. I just remember I had the most fun in a k20a ITR and want to build a Honda for myself.
I'm a mechanic and my family has a shop I can use. I'm not comfortable fabbing my own stuff or anything advanced like that. I'm okay with swapping engines, turbos, transmissions, suspension etc. My last fun car was a fully built and BAR'd e30 BMW with plans of going FI. Full suspension on RE11's and there wasn't a car that could shake me on a back-road. Loved the thing but I put way too much time and money into the car and it was totaled when someone turned left in front of me. I don't want to take a loss like that again.
I've been reading up on the great things Bisi's had to say about the f22a and I'd like to go that route. The intake ports flow great stock but exhaust needs some mild work. They're dirt cheap, plentiful and reliable. Dad sold his with over 500k. From what I understand, a big expense going to an H or F is the transmission, axles, hubs, brakes, shift linkages, etc. But if I went with Bisi's F2D kit wouldn't I be able to leave everything else alone? Also read a few different places that the D trans holds up better than B because their gears are thicker or cut differently?
Anyway, goals for the car. Strip as much weight as I'm comfortable with. Hopefully around 1500lbs. Must stay NA. I like the sleeper look, especially if I get pulled over so no ITB's either. The f22a just looks like a stock D magnified by 10%. No massive VTEC SEND ME TO A REF valve cover in the engine bay to worry about etc. Mild port work on the f22a. Level 3 Bisi cam along with valvetrain. Stuck with 91 octane but because of the radical cam I should be able to get away with higher compression, maybe 12.1-12.5? Header and intake manifold I'm still unsure about.
If I'm putting 2 or 3k in the engine, I'd like at least 200whp. Very happy in the 250whp range and extremely happy around 300whp. I don't care if it idles at 2k rpm from an aggressive cam or has no low end. Not a daily. I think a B takes as much money to get 200whp as a F would to get near 250whp and still not be as reliable. An H costs 10x what I could get an F for and still not flow as well as an F. Porting a B head to flow near what an F head can do would cost around $1,500. Maybe a few hundred to get the F head around 280 intake 200 exhaust. Plus the B block would at a minimum need sleeves but an aftermarket block would be ideal. Am I making sense or am I missing something obvious? Why aren't more people going with an F swap?
A part of me was really wanting to go b16 and build a high rpm screamer with CNC porting but it seems very rare for a b16 to get more than 200whp. Can anyone explain to me what holds the b16 back from making high hp? I got to beat on a 458 and that 4.5l pulls hard to 9k. What's stopping the b16 from hitting 10 or 11k and making power? Running factory GM CTS-V hydraulic lifters and a junkyard destroked LS pushrod v8 will spin to 8k and make over 600hp with a 5l engine. I'm not trying to be smart or anything, I genuinely want to know what's holding it back. I understand why the b20 isn't happy at high rpm for long and even the b18's, but not b16 with meat on the sleeves and a decent rod stroke ratio.
I don't want to start throwing money in the wrong direction, would love to hear some opinions and advice from the folks here first. Thanks for any help.
I'm picking up a clean stock 89 CRX HF tomorrow morning as a new project. Total last minute decision. I've been trying to read up as much as I can the last week or so, but forgive me for any ignorance. I don't have any first hand experience with CRX's. My boy had an ITR, we rebuilt the b18c5 a few times over the years. Just wouldn't hold up to the kind of abuse he'd put it though but would pull hard. Would always end with rod noise though. The last time I killed it cruising at 150ish or whatever 6th is at redline for about 4 minutes at 3am in "Mexico", two weeks later lovely rod knock noise was back. He told me to send it, send it I did. Ended up going k20a and it was a champ, extreme abuse and never any issues. Swapping in a K is out of the question in my case. I just remember I had the most fun in a k20a ITR and want to build a Honda for myself.
I'm a mechanic and my family has a shop I can use. I'm not comfortable fabbing my own stuff or anything advanced like that. I'm okay with swapping engines, turbos, transmissions, suspension etc. My last fun car was a fully built and BAR'd e30 BMW with plans of going FI. Full suspension on RE11's and there wasn't a car that could shake me on a back-road. Loved the thing but I put way too much time and money into the car and it was totaled when someone turned left in front of me. I don't want to take a loss like that again.
I've been reading up on the great things Bisi's had to say about the f22a and I'd like to go that route. The intake ports flow great stock but exhaust needs some mild work. They're dirt cheap, plentiful and reliable. Dad sold his with over 500k. From what I understand, a big expense going to an H or F is the transmission, axles, hubs, brakes, shift linkages, etc. But if I went with Bisi's F2D kit wouldn't I be able to leave everything else alone? Also read a few different places that the D trans holds up better than B because their gears are thicker or cut differently?
Anyway, goals for the car. Strip as much weight as I'm comfortable with. Hopefully around 1500lbs. Must stay NA. I like the sleeper look, especially if I get pulled over so no ITB's either. The f22a just looks like a stock D magnified by 10%. No massive VTEC SEND ME TO A REF valve cover in the engine bay to worry about etc. Mild port work on the f22a. Level 3 Bisi cam along with valvetrain. Stuck with 91 octane but because of the radical cam I should be able to get away with higher compression, maybe 12.1-12.5? Header and intake manifold I'm still unsure about.
If I'm putting 2 or 3k in the engine, I'd like at least 200whp. Very happy in the 250whp range and extremely happy around 300whp. I don't care if it idles at 2k rpm from an aggressive cam or has no low end. Not a daily. I think a B takes as much money to get 200whp as a F would to get near 250whp and still not be as reliable. An H costs 10x what I could get an F for and still not flow as well as an F. Porting a B head to flow near what an F head can do would cost around $1,500. Maybe a few hundred to get the F head around 280 intake 200 exhaust. Plus the B block would at a minimum need sleeves but an aftermarket block would be ideal. Am I making sense or am I missing something obvious? Why aren't more people going with an F swap?
A part of me was really wanting to go b16 and build a high rpm screamer with CNC porting but it seems very rare for a b16 to get more than 200whp. Can anyone explain to me what holds the b16 back from making high hp? I got to beat on a 458 and that 4.5l pulls hard to 9k. What's stopping the b16 from hitting 10 or 11k and making power? Running factory GM CTS-V hydraulic lifters and a junkyard destroked LS pushrod v8 will spin to 8k and make over 600hp with a 5l engine. I'm not trying to be smart or anything, I genuinely want to know what's holding it back. I understand why the b20 isn't happy at high rpm for long and even the b18's, but not b16 with meat on the sleeves and a decent rod stroke ratio.
I don't want to start throwing money in the wrong direction, would love to hear some opinions and advice from the folks here first. Thanks for any help.
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