Hello all,
Some questions, as I prepare to replace inner & outer tie rods (both side) on a 96 civic ex with original Honda parts.
As for inner, I'm looking for alternatives to the original Honda #8 BAND B, BELLOWS (53449-SL0-A00) and #3 CLIP, TIE ROD (53434-SD9-000) clamps on the inner tie rod "dust seals", (53534-SR3-N52 & 53534-ST0-013). I'd like clamps that are reusable and easier to take on and off. Other than plastic zip ties, what else have you used and would recommend?
As for outer, a VIN search gives two different part #s with different sizes for the Cotter Pin: #25 (94201-20220 PIN, SPLIT (2.0X22) and (94201-20350) SPLIT (2.0X35) that goes on #22 the 10mm Castle Nut (90320-SF1-000)...What's the deal? How do I know, which one do I get?
Thanks!

 

I would just go to autozone or your local part store to get the bellows boot you could get both tie rods with a lifetime warranty from them too and they're cheaper.

And you don't need the castle nut, zip ties are fine anything else or a clamp you put on there will just be a bitch to get off. It took me 2 hours to get mine off so I won't ever use anything but a zip tie.

Oh and try to find or rent a tool for the inner tie rod or it's gonna use a 22mm box wrench (I believe or 19) and be a bitch.

 

Getting the lock rings (13) unbent while the rack is on the car can be difficult.

Once you get the boot off, see if the looseness really is the inner joint, or the rack itself. The latter of course you'd replace the whole rack.

 

How many miles on your rack?

You might want to compare prices of buying rack that will include inner tie rod ends + outer TREs.

If the inner ends are worn, I think I would just throw in a rack.

Especially if there are any leaks...

 

I have a 2000 Civic EX. Guess what I'm working on swapping now? My chassis is at 220,000 miles

I intended on just doing the tie rod ends. In the process, I found the rack had play on the driver side. Tie rod ends were fine. OEM Honda rack was $475+$150 core deposit.

If it leaks, go for a new rack absolutely.

ha

 

Thanks!
I like to go OEM, when I can.
Why don't I need the castle nut?
As for Bellows clamps, I'm thinking along these lines:


or a clamp like this with a screw (ignore arrow).


I believe that inner tie rod tool is a free rental at AutoZone.

 

@mk378, @94 Civic Si, @theYBLEGAL
Thanks!
Recently, got new tires and went for alignment but was told they could not do it because both inner tie rods need to be replaced. I planned on doing outers, while down there but I had never thought about the rack, which has 185K+ miles on it and looks like a daunting job, for this newbie. I'll have to check more closely, what's going on, when I put the car up on stands and see where the play is and whether or not there's a leak. Alignment shop also said I need driver side axle, which I can hear clank, when I turn. That said, and I don't know if it's related to the tie rods, axle and/or rack but I also hear a loud humming noise, when I'm in motion. I don't hear it in idle but it gets louder as I accelerate yet disappears, when I turn left.

 

If the place didn't take the boots off, they can't tell if it is an inner joint or the rack.

Replacing the whole rack can be easier than trying to unscrew the inner joints on the car (neither one of those jobs is beginner DIY "easy" though), and more certain to restore solid operation. You may need to drop the subframe.

Some outer rod end ball joints use a self-locking nut instead of a castle nut and cotter pin. This will be apparent when you take the new part out of the package. If it is the castle nut type, a nut and cotter pin should be supplied. Always use the nut that comes with the new joint.

Noise when the car is rolling that changes when you turn is usually a wheel bearing. When you turn left, the weight of the car leans to the right, so there is less load on the left wheel bearings. Lift the left wheel off the ground and turn by hand. It should be practically silent.

 

Here is how I did my rack: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-.../#post51092840

 

Thanks!
The place didn't take the boots off and neither did I, the last time I lifted the car but I took some pics of both DS & PS Inner & Outer TRE (see below):

I'd have to agree with neither one of those jobs being beginner DIY "easy", but all I may be all I can count on.

As for Cotter Pin, on outer TRE; I plan to buy original Honda, for which a VIN search gives two different part #s & sizes, for the Cotter Pin: #25 (see diagram in post #1) (94201-20220 PIN, SPLIT (2.0X22) and (94201-20350) SPLIT (2.0X35), which goes on #22 the 10mm Castle Nut (90320-SF1-000). FWIW, I called Majestic Honda and they could not confirm, which size #25 Cotter Pin (2.0X22) or (2.0X35) fits the #22 10mm Castle Nut.

Next time I lift the car, hopefully this week, I'll check left wheel, as you suggest, to test wheel bearing. From videos online, bearing and/or hub do not look like beginner DIY "easy", either.

Inner TRE DS


Inner TRE PS


Outer TRE DS


Outer TRE DS

 

Thanks for sharing, very helpful!
You went with original Honda Re-manufactured rack...Who is the original manufacturer, if not Honda?
What kind of clamps were supplies the boots??
How's it holding up???

 

had to jump in here.. had my 96 rack replaced with a Honda remanufactured rack as well.
The original maker is SHOWA from what I remember. Honda sends the racks back to them and they
re-build them. Can't get any more stock than that!

I've had it for about 2 years now and NO problems at all! It feels better than the original ever did!
Steering is much more accurate, smooth, well-weighted.

Plus the nice thing about the Honda reman rack is if the dealer installs it and it goes bad within 3
years. Honda not only pays for a new part, they pay the labor too! Was worth it for me to pay
the dealer because they had dropped the front subframe to install it. I'm not messing with that
in my driveway!

 

Good point on a labor warranty!

Dropping the subframe would be more than I would want to take on as well.

Plus, they were probably able to align it right there, eh? I had to drive to the alignment shop after my rack replace...

I took the job on b/c I had the head and intake off my engine and access was good. It definitely needed it!

x2 on SHOWA, I believe they are the original rack manufacturer.

 

Thanks!
SHOWA, the original rack manufacturer
That said, before I even think about taking on such a job; and/or taking the boots off, how else can I tell, if I actually need to replace the rack?
What, if anything can you tell from my pics??

 

It is 100% possible to replace a power steering rack on a 96 to 2000 Civic without dropping the subframe. All you have to do is pull the passenger side tie rod out as if the car was steering left. That shortens the driver side tie rod enough so that you can get it out. It was no problem to do on my car.

 

Thanks, for the tip, that's reassuring.
I still want to confirm, I actually need the rack, before I get started.
FWIW, I have not noticed any steering issues.

 

Thanks!
I can see that the inner boots are broken but...
1) How do I tell, if the inner ends are worn?
2) Where am I looking for leaks?

 

is the rack leaking anywhere on the rack itself?

 

Simple way is to hold the tire at 3 and 9 o'clock positions and attempt to move/wiggle it - is there any play?

 

You need to get under there and have a look (without taking anything apart). If they are telling you they can't "align" it, there is a good chance the exposed threaded portion of your tie rods are simply corroded solid. In which case they cannot loosen the jam-nut, and therefore cannot make any change to the alignment.

 

hey I agree dropping the subframe is the easiest way to get it done. I know you could get it done without dropping it, but I agree with the dealer I took it too. Much easier to have the subframe out and then mount it all, including the hydraulic lines. When the dealer did pull the subframe they found tons of perforated rust you just couldn't see from underneath.. They weren't scamming me, it was rusted out pretty good.. I'm glad they chose to drop that rusted out frame. Luckily Honda still makes that part! Put a new one in, much more solid than it had ever been.

and yeah they were able to align it right there. They even took the time to move the subframe around slightly to get the caster just right, then bolted the subframe completely. Handles so nicely now! dumb factory never got it right from the beginning! I'm kinda glad this happened because now it's actually FUN to drive again!

as everyone has already said.. since those boots were opened for who knows how long.. water/junk could've gotten in there to affect the inner tie rods and the inner workings of the rack. I'm not trying to tell you bad stuff but being honest. You'll have to get those boots off there and see what happened inside. But if it's rusted in there, just give up and get a new rack. It's not cheap, no.. But the Honda reman I got was awesome. Funny how I can get excited about a steering rack! lol.. but it really was that much better! Honda does a great job on their reman stuff. I got a reman starter (honda) and it's awesome too!

Without sounding like a commercial, but the part that I like about the Honda reman stuff is that it's rebuilt by the original supplier, but it's tested thoroughly before you get it! New stuff isn't tested like that, it's random tests during production. So a reman actually has been gone over to make sure it's 100%. Dealer told me they'll always use reman even if new is available for these reasons.. I completely agree!

EDIT: One more thing.. If you do drop the subframe make sure you get some rust encapsulator (I got Eastwood.com's stuff).. To prep the rust that could be under the subframe, then paint this stuff in there, that way it'll slow/stop the rust on the chassis/body under there.. that's what I did with mine, happy I did!

 

Thanks all!
I hope everyone, who celebrates had a Happy Thanksgiving!
I've been dealing with post Irma property damage and have not been able to get back under car or do much else..
I'll be back!

 

GL with property damage. hope its not bad.
on my 97 civic I just did a dorman reman rack with 1 year warranty and also did both inner and outer rods. iv had the dorman rack in for 4 years now with no issues. like theyblegal said you can easily do it without dropping subframe. i have done it twice on ek chassis and both were done on jack stands and my fat *** on the ground. Not bad and there is some videos that explain it PERFECTLY.

 

Thanks!
Not too bad! Very lucky, considering...Lost old fences, old tiki hut and some old trees. No damage to house or people.
Have not had a chance to raise car again but that said, to summarize what I know...

I need to replace:
1) Both sides inner and outer tie-rods.
2) DS axle

I hear the following 2 noises;
1) Humming noise, from the front of the car, which gets louder as I accelerate but goes away, when I turn left and decelerate
2) Rotating metal scraping, from the front of the car, which gets louder, when I turn left.
Last time I raised front end and hand spun tires, on both sides; only real difference I could tell was he rotating metal scraping noise was on DS only.

As for Power Steering Rack, I don't believe there is an issue with PS itself, but not sure where to check, for leaks under car. I checked levels up top, where you ad PS fluid and it was just below the low line so I added Honda PS fluid, to bring up and will keep an eye on it. I hadn't checked that in probably 8-10 years.

My main concern, a this point is diagnosing these 2 noises and ruling out whether or not they're related to the tie-rods and/or axle or something else i.e. wheel bearing, as mk378 has suggested. Then, once diagnosed, my concern will be which order to do do repairs in. That said, after watching a few videos and speaking to a friend with more knowledge and tools, he suggested, if bad wheel bearing, it might be easier to go ahead and replace the hub.

Thoughts?

 

if your replacing the axle, and you verify its the bearing it should not be too bad to remove the knuckle and press bad bearing out and new one in. but all depends on tools at your disposal. Instead of renting a kit, because I don't have a press, I just removed my knuckle and took it to a local shop. dudes only charged me $25 in labor.

there are some decent vids out there to help narrow down where that noise could be coming from. if your planning on keeping it might not hurt to just do both sides. Wheel bearings, tie rods, and ball joints on both sides. Rock auto has some good prices so it really comes down to just labor and time.

Glad to hear about the property damage not being too bad. RIP tiki hut though...