BRAINSTORM: Modern B-Series Commuter Swap/Budget Daily Build
Please don't tell me to search... I obviously have been and will continue. This is my first post, but not my first rodeo. This is a different kind of build to what you guys are probably used to. It's a fairly mild setup,100% stock and emphasizes reliability. It's not trying to be anything it's not. It's not fast (though faster than a D16), but it's cheap and reliable... I could only pick two as the saying goes. I recently bought a 1999 Civic EX (actually a Canadian Si) to use as a $1000 commuter car. I love Hondas, my first car was a 1994 Integra LS that I straped a .60 trim eBay turbo to so naturally I can't leave my new EJ alone. The D16y8 in the car runs like a top and currently drives fine despite having 400K on the clock (Hondas, right?). My intention is to daily drive the car so reliability and economy is as important to me as performance which is why this build is a total compromise. A good compromise though I promise. Give me your opinions on my plans. I need to know I'm on the right track and have a definite parts list.
Plan:
Swap OBD2b D16y8 with a locally sourced and abundant OBD2b B20Z2 from a 1999-2001 Honda CRV. Mate B20Z2 with a cheap and also easily sourced 1994-2001 Acura Integra LS transmission and OBD2 intake manifold. Use Integra throttle cable and Civic Si/SiR B series EK mounts. Use OBD2 P75 Integra manual transmission ECU.
Budget:
$1500CND
Goal:
Build a cheap, fun, reliable daily driven EK with reasonable highway fuel economy and passing power. Must meet strict Ontario OBD2 emissions testing and guidelines. Reverting to a previous OBD version is prohibited and results in an immediate fail; meaning OBD1 and therefore tuning are not options. Engine must run on an OEM OBD2b or OBD2a with a OBD2b conversion harness; must be able to communicated via OBD2 port and cannot throw a CEL.
Logic:
Combining the longer gearing of the LS transmission and the nice flat torque curve of the B20Z2 should make for a solid pairing for a daily driven highway commuter. The LS and D16y8 transmission are geared very similiarly. Combining the higher low range torque of the B20Z2 and the LS's longer legs in theory should put highway crusing RPM on stock tires the same or lower than where the D16y8 would normally live. This in theory would represent the best of both worlds for me, similar fuel mileage to the D16y8 on the highway and DOHC power for spirited driving around town. As 90% of my driving will be highway, the need to use regular fuel outweighs the pro of VTEC (blasphemy, I know).
Swap Parts:
Engine:
B20Z2 Engine (1999-2001 Honda CRV)
*From 2000 Honda CRV with 220,000 kilometers (around 135,000 miles)
B18B1 OBD2 Intake Manifold (1996-2000 Integra LS)
*Must include throttle body (B20Z throttle plate pulls opposite direction), injectors, fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator
*Sourced from 2001 Integra
B18b1 Throttle Cable (1996-2000 Integra LS)
B18B1 Starter (1996-2000 Integra LS)
*CRV/B20 starter too long, need 2 mounting bolts as well
Civic Si/SiR/Integra Intake Tube
B-Series Header
Transmission and Axels: $300
S80/Y80 (B18B1) 5 Speed Manual Hydro Transmission (1994-2001 Integra LS)
*S80 LS transmission sourced from a 2001 Integra (with 180,000 kilometers or 110,000 miles)
S80/Y80 (B18B1) Transmission Linkages (1994-2001 Integra LS)
*Linkages sourced from a 2001 Integra (with 180,000 kilometers or 110,000 miles), might source OEM - need to check play
1989-2001 B-Series Axles
B-Series Transmission Bolt Kit
ECU:
B18B1 P75 ECU 1999-2001 OBD2b ECU
*Sourced from 2001 OBD2b Integra
Clutch:
B-Series Clutch Kit - $200
B-Series Flywheel - $100
B-Series ARP Flywheel Bolts - $50
*OEM or lightened depending on price and availability
B-Series Clutch Cover (missing) - $100
*Must use clutch cover from any B-Series Transmission - Honda Part Number 21351-PR3-010
Mounts:
B/D-Series engine mounts Mounts (1996-2000 Honda Civic) - $100
*Must use transmission bracket from a B16 Civic - Honda Part Number 50827-S04-N10
*Must use front transmission torque mount from 1994-2001 Integra - Honda Part Number 50843 S04 N10
Wiring:
OBD2 wiring should be plug and play, 3 sensor plugs from engine wiring harness will not be used due to the removal of VTEC functionality.
EVAP Purge Solenoid Valve (1996-2001 Integra LS)
IAT Sensor (1996-2001 Integra LS)
*D16y8 IAT sensor is in the intake pipe, the B18b IAT is located in the intake manifold
Plan:
Swap OBD2b D16y8 with a locally sourced and abundant OBD2b B20Z2 from a 1999-2001 Honda CRV. Mate B20Z2 with a cheap and also easily sourced 1994-2001 Acura Integra LS transmission and OBD2 intake manifold. Use Integra throttle cable and Civic Si/SiR B series EK mounts. Use OBD2 P75 Integra manual transmission ECU.
Budget:
$1500CND
Goal:
Build a cheap, fun, reliable daily driven EK with reasonable highway fuel economy and passing power. Must meet strict Ontario OBD2 emissions testing and guidelines. Reverting to a previous OBD version is prohibited and results in an immediate fail; meaning OBD1 and therefore tuning are not options. Engine must run on an OEM OBD2b or OBD2a with a OBD2b conversion harness; must be able to communicated via OBD2 port and cannot throw a CEL.
Logic:
Combining the longer gearing of the LS transmission and the nice flat torque curve of the B20Z2 should make for a solid pairing for a daily driven highway commuter. The LS and D16y8 transmission are geared very similiarly. Combining the higher low range torque of the B20Z2 and the LS's longer legs in theory should put highway crusing RPM on stock tires the same or lower than where the D16y8 would normally live. This in theory would represent the best of both worlds for me, similar fuel mileage to the D16y8 on the highway and DOHC power for spirited driving around town. As 90% of my driving will be highway, the need to use regular fuel outweighs the pro of VTEC (blasphemy, I know).
Swap Parts:
Engine:
B20Z2 Engine (1999-2001 Honda CRV)
*From 2000 Honda CRV with 220,000 kilometers (around 135,000 miles)
B18B1 OBD2 Intake Manifold (1996-2000 Integra LS)
*Must include throttle body (B20Z throttle plate pulls opposite direction), injectors, fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator
*Sourced from 2001 Integra
B18b1 Throttle Cable (1996-2000 Integra LS)
B18B1 Starter (1996-2000 Integra LS)
*CRV/B20 starter too long, need 2 mounting bolts as well
Civic Si/SiR/Integra Intake Tube
B-Series Header
Transmission and Axels: $300
S80/Y80 (B18B1) 5 Speed Manual Hydro Transmission (1994-2001 Integra LS)
*S80 LS transmission sourced from a 2001 Integra (with 180,000 kilometers or 110,000 miles)
S80/Y80 (B18B1) Transmission Linkages (1994-2001 Integra LS)
*Linkages sourced from a 2001 Integra (with 180,000 kilometers or 110,000 miles), might source OEM - need to check play
1989-2001 B-Series Axles
B-Series Transmission Bolt Kit
ECU:
B18B1 P75 ECU 1999-2001 OBD2b ECU
*Sourced from 2001 OBD2b Integra
Clutch:
B-Series Clutch Kit - $200
B-Series Flywheel - $100
B-Series ARP Flywheel Bolts - $50
*OEM or lightened depending on price and availability
B-Series Clutch Cover (missing) - $100
*Must use clutch cover from any B-Series Transmission - Honda Part Number 21351-PR3-010
Mounts:
B/D-Series engine mounts Mounts (1996-2000 Honda Civic) - $100
*Must use transmission bracket from a B16 Civic - Honda Part Number 50827-S04-N10
*Must use front transmission torque mount from 1994-2001 Integra - Honda Part Number 50843 S04 N10
Wiring:
OBD2 wiring should be plug and play, 3 sensor plugs from engine wiring harness will not be used due to the removal of VTEC functionality.
EVAP Purge Solenoid Valve (1996-2001 Integra LS)
IAT Sensor (1996-2001 Integra LS)
*D16y8 IAT sensor is in the intake pipe, the B18b IAT is located in the intake manifold
Last edited by HotrodHooptie; Oct 17, 2017 at 08:33 PM. Reason: Updated info and parts acquired
I ran a 2000 civic ex for a couple years with a stock B20B and it was great. My friend still has it with the same setup 5 years later.
B20B - low compression 96-98 from an orithia. This already has the LS intake manifold from the factory so no need to swap the giraffe out.
gsr transmission
apexi world sport catback with stock ex cat converter
aem cold air for EM1 civic B16a
conversion harness with obd1 LS P75
stock ex ecu with a couple dummy sensors plugged run fine (driving gently) and pass NY emissions check
uses all D16 engine mounts with the exception of the mount bracket on drivers side. This is the cast bracket that bolts to the side of the engine under the timing belt cover.
this combo ran fine on an LS ecu with only the fpr vacuum reference capped off. Otherwise the idle is too lean. I ran a similar setup b20 on the Dyno and AFR was pretty damn good across the board. I think too many bolt ons will easily push this over the edge however.
B20B - low compression 96-98 from an orithia. This already has the LS intake manifold from the factory so no need to swap the giraffe out.
gsr transmission
apexi world sport catback with stock ex cat converter
aem cold air for EM1 civic B16a
conversion harness with obd1 LS P75
stock ex ecu with a couple dummy sensors plugged run fine (driving gently) and pass NY emissions check
uses all D16 engine mounts with the exception of the mount bracket on drivers side. This is the cast bracket that bolts to the side of the engine under the timing belt cover.
this combo ran fine on an LS ecu with only the fpr vacuum reference capped off. Otherwise the idle is too lean. I ran a similar setup b20 on the Dyno and AFR was pretty damn good across the board. I think too many bolt ons will easily push this over the edge however.
I ran a 2000 civic ex for a couple years with a stock B20B and it was great. My friend still has it with the same setup 5 years later.
B20B - low compression 96-98 from an orithia. This already has the LS intake manifold from the factory so no need to swap the giraffe out.
gsr transmission
apexi world sport catback with stock ex cat converter
aem cold air for EM1 civic B16a
conversion harness with obd1 LS P75
stock ex ecu with a couple dummy sensors plugged run fine (driving gently) and pass NY emissions check
uses all D16 engine mounts with the exception of the mount bracket on drivers side. This is the cast bracket that bolts to the side of the engine under the timing belt cover.
this combo ran fine on an LS ecu with only the fpr vacuum reference capped off. Otherwise the idle is too lean. I ran a similar setup b20 on the Dyno and AFR was pretty damn good across the board. I think too many bolt ons will easily push this over the edge however.
B20B - low compression 96-98 from an orithia. This already has the LS intake manifold from the factory so no need to swap the giraffe out.
gsr transmission
apexi world sport catback with stock ex cat converter
aem cold air for EM1 civic B16a
conversion harness with obd1 LS P75
stock ex ecu with a couple dummy sensors plugged run fine (driving gently) and pass NY emissions check
uses all D16 engine mounts with the exception of the mount bracket on drivers side. This is the cast bracket that bolts to the side of the engine under the timing belt cover.
this combo ran fine on an LS ecu with only the fpr vacuum reference capped off. Otherwise the idle is too lean. I ran a similar setup b20 on the Dyno and AFR was pretty damn good across the board. I think too many bolt ons will easily push this over the edge however.
Thanks to Runnerdown, I looked closer into mounts. I thought I needed a two post cast timing cover mount (Honda Part Number: 11910-P30-000) from a B16 Civic. I've learned that the B20 CRV bracket is the same as the B16 Civic bracket. According to this thread here; B18 mounts are different due to the Integra engine bay. CRV and Civic bays are similar enough though for the timing cover mount to work in an EK/EJ. The Orthia B20 is also different and has to use the Si bracket for the swap like a B18 (using the CRV B20 saves me $150). I do need the 1999-2000 Civic Si rear transmission bracket though (Honda Part Number: 50827-S04-N10).
My next question is if the P75 can handle a B20Z2 high compression engine if a P75 is running lean at idle on the lower compression B20B. Would capping the vacuum reference on the fuel pressure regulator help richen up the idle enough to run a stock OBD2 ECU? Or should I leave it alone? Arguably the P75 runs rich on a B18 so it should be fine for the B20. It seems as though a P75 is the tried and true way to go.. I'll continue to do some research. I know there are a couple floating around here in the wreckers of each so worst case I could try both.
Found a 2001 Integra LS Y80 transmission with low miles local. Comes with shift linkages, and axels and for $300. Might steal an ECU from it as well. Should have it in the next couple of weeks.
Inputting the LS' gear ratios into the Gear Calculator results in 2800RPM at 101KPH in 5th gear. This is on stock 14" steelies that measure 23" tall (Chance EG is correct, just double checked it). With the stock D16y8 and transmission I believe cruising RPM is about the same (2750RPM at 101KPH in 5th gear). Would the increased torque of the B20 help lower cruising RPM? I'm no physics expert but wouldn't more torque made earlier lower it even further than the D16y8? If the amount of torque needed to support cruising at 100kph is acheived at (for example 50ft/lbs@2300RPM instead of 50ft/lbs@2800RPM) in the powerband wouldn't gearing be affected as well since it's relative? Or is it all based on engine speed and torque doesn't factor in? My head hurts.
The EPA ratings put a 2000 Integra LS manual at 28MPG highway, a 2000 Civic Si/SiR manual at 29MPG highway, and 2000 Civic EX manual at 32MPG stock. If the B20 is paired with an LS transmission but in a lighter chassis, without PS and AC it should hopefully give me around 30MPG.
Last edited by HotrodHooptie; Oct 11, 2017 at 01:32 AM. Reason: Updated info
Use whatever ECU comes factory with the engine. If your car is OBD1 then you'll need a conversion harness.
Stock tires I think are 23" tall, but you may want to double check that (I know it's true for EG, I think EK too).
Plug in the LS B18B gear ratios and other info here, and it will tell you your max speed per gear... Mfactory used to have a really nice graph that would show your exact speed in each gear for different RPM's, but they've pulled that calculator off their website. You'll have to do some math and figure that one out.
Gear Ratio Speed Calculator
Stock tires I think are 23" tall, but you may want to double check that (I know it's true for EG, I think EK too).
Plug in the LS B18B gear ratios and other info here, and it will tell you your max speed per gear... Mfactory used to have a really nice graph that would show your exact speed in each gear for different RPM's, but they've pulled that calculator off their website. You'll have to do some math and figure that one out.
Gear Ratio Speed Calculator
Finally cleared the registration trial on HT and can now post freely, I tried posting but I couldn't earlier this week.
This week I've collected:
2000 Honda CRV B20Z2 High Comp Engine (220,000) - $500
2001 Acura Integra Y80 Transmission with linkages - $300
2001 Acura Integra P75 Intake Manifold - $50
2001 Acura Integra P75 ECU - FREE
Which means I've spent around $850 so far and have a solid base to build off of. It looks like the next most expensive part of this is going to be replacing bolts and misc I didn't get with the engine or transmission from the wreckers. I just purchased a transmission bolt kit as well. How is this looking? Am I on the right track? Thanks.
This week I've collected:
2000 Honda CRV B20Z2 High Comp Engine (220,000) - $500
2001 Acura Integra Y80 Transmission with linkages - $300
2001 Acura Integra P75 Intake Manifold - $50
2001 Acura Integra P75 ECU - FREE
Which means I've spent around $850 so far and have a solid base to build off of. It looks like the next most expensive part of this is going to be replacing bolts and misc I didn't get with the engine or transmission from the wreckers. I just purchased a transmission bolt kit as well. How is this looking? Am I on the right track? Thanks.
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