Hi, my B16 is going to be rebuilt soon, and given the opportunity I want to upgrade it. My power goals are not extreme, as this will be a daily driver, 170whp/200hp on a 1080kg car is enough for me to have fun and go to the drag strip once in a while. Cams and valvetrain upgrades are non existant here and would be considerably expensive to import, so I'm stuck with the classic I/H/E. To my knowledge I would be hard pressed to make more than 15whp with a good set of parts and stock compression. I know people will say "turbo it" or "GSR/LS/B20v swap". Around here, turbo setups are illegal (a lot of people run them, but if you get caught, prepare to spend some money to get your car back and hope your stuff doesn't get stolen in the process). No engine swap that is worth the trouble is also legal to run. We don't have LS/GSR Integras, much less their cranks. The solution apparently is the only OEM stroker setup available: 89mm B20Z crank and rods with a custom piston set made here. The wrist pin needs to be moved, 5.9mm I'm told, which gets rid of the secondary compression ring. Some people then have issues with oil burning after 30-50k miles. My questions are: Is it worth it? Too much trouble for the potential power in my case? Will the setup be reliable for a daily? I know this stuff is all about the assembly, strict clearances and good maintenance, but I want to know people's experiences. The plan is to run the stock 10.2:1 compression, so is 170whp possible with only I/H/E on this setup?

 

Definitely not worth it. Not worth it at all.

Also stock B20 cranks are 89mm, I'm assuming you meant one of the stroker cranks.


You could get just about 170+WHP with a good tune on a stock internal B16 with a good choice of bolt ons and tune. Polished Ultra Street or Victor-X intake manifold, a good intake with K&N filter, and a good header with 2.5"+ exhaust would get you there (I'd recommend an SMSP style header).

Edit: Also, just something to consider but you may want to change to a shorter final drive on your transmission. A 4.9 would pair up really well with a B16 and the bolt ons (You'd definitely want an LS 5th gear in this situation though for highways).

 

My bad, I meant the OEM B20 crank, 89mm. I really thought that power figure was pretty much impossible without cams. Unfortunately we're limited by fuel grades here, so the stock compression would have to remain, unless I go crazy with an E100 flex-fuel setup. Exhaust is not a problem, I can do pretty much anything and have access to people that make custom mufflers and all. The manifold is a problem though, never seen any of the aftermarket ones around, so it may be a pain to import. Wouldn't a ported P30 perform almost the same besides up until ~8000 rpms?. I'm running a Simota intake that came with the car (like the PW JDM PowerChamber/J's Racing), so I think I can improve there. I could also route a cold air feed to help intake temps and direct air, and change the filter. What do you recommend intake-wise? I may be able to get an SMSP or Toda replica, do you know anything about the 1320 Performance ones? I'm really skeptical about that kind of power gains (+34whp over the 136whp baseline!) with just bolt-ons and a tune and stock comp. It seemed that every post I read about I/H/E said "it's worthless without cams!" but what do I know?

 

Out of all the B series engines, the B16 (especially the B16B) is the most "maxed out" engine from the factory in terms of the power they put out straight from Honda, and the power they're capable of making without major modifications (internal swaps) or forced induction. They obviously lack the displacement of the 1.8 or 2.0, and don't suffer from the same terrible manifold designs of the LS/GSR. Basically, there's less easy room for growth. They respond VERY well to cams and a higher redline, especially when used in conjunction with higher piston compression. It's not that bolt-ons are "worthless", it's just that given the option cams are not something that should be missed on this engine.

I recently helped a friend install a 1320 SMSP on his B20V and the quality looked pretty solid, and the butt dyno so far indicates gains over the ITR header he had previously. I like the design and stepped collectors a lot.

If you're talking about porting the B16 intake manifold, then yes that actually is a pretty good idea to start with. Bore out the stock manifold and port match the TB as large as possible as well.

For intake I'd recommend a short ram with a cold air box in the corner of the bay. Will get great IAT's and not suffer from the drawbacks of a CAI. I've been unimpressed with the results of the cold air's I've installed, short rams seem to work better and an airbox would benefit even further.

 

SMH at another b16 stroker.....
To use b20 crank and rods in a b16 block, you would need to push the pin up about 9mm's....

 

The only other B16 Stroker I'd consider is very expensive.
Stroker Kit - TODA Racing USA / MISANO Motor Sports, Inc.

But these are over $6K, and are pretty out of many racer's price range.

There's also the Brian Crower package.. But personally, I can't stand BC parts.
https://www.hptautosport.com/product...gaAi11EALw_wcB

 

You could use the B20 crank and the original B16A rods and only need to push the pin up 5.5mm's (to a compression height of 24.50mm)... this change is shallow enough that one can keep the second compression ring and may not even need an oil support rail.

 

Yes, another one. I'm unfortunately limited by several factors so I can't just swap a B18C/B20 block (I honestly wish I could). Can you explain how you got to that specific number? 9mm would still take the secondary ring but possibly the oil one also if the standard PR3 piston is taken as a base.

Edit: I guess that the pin needs to be moved 8.8mm with the B20 rods and 5.8mm with the B16 rods to retain the 0.022 piston-to-deck height of the original B16. Is that correct?

Unfortunately $6k is crazy, especially when you're allowed to swap engines all over the world. I've been told that the Toda stroker kit is just an ITR crank and rods with custom pistons, the best setup in my opinion, but very difficult to get all the parts. I could try to get a B18C crank and rods somehow if the original idea is impossible or too unreliable. I guess that the Brian Crower kit is decent, but unfortunately that doesn't help me as the import taxes would be outrageous on something of that cost, and there's even further paperwork to simply allow it to arrive due to the price. Yeah, it's pretty revolting.

 

That's a great idea, but I'm unsure if the horrible 1.51:1 R/S would allow me to safely (and reliably) rev the car to the 8.5k rpm cut of the B16 with only some ARP Rod Bolts and forged pistons.

 

zeal auto works is your friend....
But any ways if you are dead set on reliably pushing this b16 block while staying NA, I would try and track down a set of b17 rods and crank (or maybe a used long or short block). Then CSS to 82mm or sleeve to 84mm your block plus a b17 crank (81.40mm) and rods (132mm). That would be a fun engine with a great rod to stroke ratio and decent displacement (1720 or 1804 cc's).

P73-00 (JDM B18C5) pistons
P61 (B17A) rods and crank
Your b16a block
At 84mm bore and 81.4mm stroke will make for 1804ccand 11.78:1 compression. This with Type R cams or maybe Pro 1's and good intake and exhaust, would be a blast.

 

That appears like great setup. Will dry sleeves like the Darton ones take care of the bore? I was set on the B20 setup as it's easily available here and I wouldn't have to deal with all the import fees and bureaucracy. Besides, it would probably cost me less then to get some decent cams and valvetrain to arrive here, and I would have the B16 rotating assembly as a spare if something happens. I'll see what I can do about the B17 setup.

 

Don't worry about that R/S number. It has been proven for years to be just an optimal operational ratio. It means nothing in the grand scheme of things since we've been safely ignoring that little number for a bit over 20 years now.
If you want to go "by the book" as exactly Honda would have it, you've come to the wrong place. We're about taking that book, using the absolute minimum necessary to be the most utilitarian, then "trying other things out", without the book's permission. The people giving you tips here have already done it, so, again, don't worry about that R/S number so much. IT's much more theoretical than it is applied.

 

Thanks for ​the clarification. I understand that, and its why I decided to try and assemble the stroker kit and ask the opinion of people more capable on the matter. I'm unfortunately playing on a set of idiot regulations and also very limited on available upgrades/parts as I explained. I would happily go turbo and stop trying to cram parts together that supposedly should be distant from one another. But it's not ideal in my case, as it's not a track car only. A supercharger setup would be more discrete, but it also has its limitations and would need some custom fabrication work using any of the OEM available superchargers like an Eaton or IHI. Again, I just want a quick car to drive have some fun at the track once in a while, but I need to work with what I have. I'll definitely consider this setup with the B16 rods if the R/S doesn't make all that difference.

 

There is an option for you to stroke that b16 motor.... you can actually make it a 1.7 with stock parts... if you get a b17 92-93 gsr crank and rods.. they drop right in the b16 motor... strokes it to the 1.7 motor.... gives you bit more power. . Also if you have b16a p30 pistons it will bump compression to 11:1 ish range...

 

So are you stuck with the original block or can you swap in the B20 block, because it sounds like you are contradicting yourself....

 

I think he meant using the stock B20 crank.

 

Yes, unfortunately I'm stuck with the original block as I said in the first post.

 

repost

 

Yeah, no. A b20 or LS crank, in your b16 block is a terrible idea, but If you are dead set on terrible ideas such as b16 strokers, you could possibly keep your block and rods, get a b18c crank and have custom pistons made.
25mm compression height, 82mm and +5cc of dome would be a fun combination.
1.54 rod:stroke ratio (same as LS and B20), 11.3 compression ratio (10cc would bring you up to 12.6:1) and 1842cc (1933cc if you sleeved the block and went to 84mm bores).
If you CSS'd the block, bored to 82mm, used ARP rod and head bolts, then had your stock rods shot peened / cryo treated, this engine might actually stay together lol
I would probably look into a B18c block girdle and windage tray, would probably require a line hone on the mains and maybe different oil pump/pickup?

Again, have you even looked at zealautowerks yet?

 

Yeah, it might be a terrible idea, but unfortunately I don't have many options and came to ask opinions and especially if someone else had real world experience with the setup. Yes, I'm very familiar with the B-Series Calculator, but I don't have a host of parts to select from B series engines readily available at the closest junkyard to piece together an engine, and even B16 blocks and it's rotating assembly is quite rare. B18s are non existant. I've contacted some piston manufacturers and the only possible stroker kit without getting into oil and compression issues is the GSR crank with the B16 rods. Another solution would be boring the block to 85.5-86mm to get close enough to 1797cc.

 

There is no combination of stock Honda/Acura cranks and rods that will work in your application. You WILL need some custom parts no matter what crankshaft you pick. B16A rods will NOT fit a GSR crankshaft... the big end is too wide for the crankshaft rod journal, so you would need a custom aftermarket rod to work with the 87.2mm GSR/ITR crank. It (the B16A rod) will fit the 89mm LS/CR-V crank rod journal. The idea of boring the block to 85 or 86mm is a terrible idea... even if it was a sleeved block. There simply isn't enough material between bores to keep a head gasket sealed up... especially on a road race car.