I have had my EG civic for 1 year now. Through this time, having never really messed with Honda, I really needed time to develop a sense for the vehicle. I added the standard bolt-ons first, I/H/E and kept it simple, overall, I like it. I realize it isn't a 370Z, Nissan 240, Mitsu Eclipse, etc. It is a 1.5L N/A, single cam, non-Vtec Honda Civic. I have found what I believe to be the car's strengths and weaknesses and plan to address this in the upcoming and ongoing build. The next round of the build, I am addressing maintenance first; oil seals and gaskets. The only gasket not being done is the head gasket. I am replacing clutch and flywheel, going with some weight loss here. The 22 lb stock FW is pretty hefty for the car's already meager 95 HP to have to carry on its back, so I am going with a lighter replacement. I will be addressing further the intake with an intake manifold and throttle body, then chipping the ECU. This will allow me to play around with tuning to get the hang of things for later, and to take best advantage of the mods done thus far. Build plans are very mild compared to some of the outlandishly ridiculous and failed plans I have seen on a D15B7. More to come on that later on though. My main intention is to get within a specified power to weight ratio without having to completely gut and frankenstein the engine internals. As I have seen over this year, too many attempts by too many people to just go ***** to the walls power without realizing they are trying to kill a mouse with a bazooka. I expect a lot of flack for wasting money on this engine, just swap it, not enough parts, so on. My end point is to uplift the spirits of those that have this platform and want more without having to switch platforms. It.. Can.. Be.. Done.. And it will..

Thoughts, suggestions, comments? Leave 'em here!

 

I look forward to reading your trials/tribulations/victories!

 

Start with sticky tires (if you don't live with snow). Definitely the #1 upgrade. From there the next upgrade will become apparent.

What size wheels do you have?
Do you live with snow?
Are you considering different wheels?

 

Are you truing to squeeze as much power out of the d15 with full bolt-ons and a tune? Sounds interesting. Well if you ever fall short on the fuel side (which i highly doubt, but just in case) you can try adding h22 injectors and a fuel pump. Keep us updated, interested to see the costs and gains.

 

I suggest 14" steelies, as they never did let me down when i had my eg 4 door with I/H/E. if your tires are in good shape you shouldnt have traction issues. Also suggest a z6 transmission, the closer gear ratios will make a BIG difference

 

 

I'm ramping up toward a turbo on rebuilt stock engine. All I will need to do after this round is rebuild the block and head. I'm making a few adjustments, going with alternate rod and head bolts, but stock Pistons and rods, etc. Mild turbo, gt28RS. Given the car is a scant 95 HP out the gate and actually fun to drive, an increase up to 180 HP is incredible, obtainable, and totally workable on stock internals. From the few things I have done so far, I've spent less than 300 bucks. I have allotted 1000 for this round and half of that is maintenance.
tires will be addressed when she gets boosted, I've been a fan of Direzza, so that is my first choice unless they don't come in the size I'll want.
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Are you doing the rebuild and tuning yourself? What kind of turbo kit are you going with? Or are you just piecing it together? $1000 sounds like it wont cover all of that, but i could be wrong. I pieced together my d-series turbo kit for $400 for my ek though, through all used parts, but i ended up trading for a 5 speed swap after blowing my auto transmission.

 

Yes. Rebuild and tune by my lonesome. The boost build will be more. I am planning on keeping the total cost at 3k or less. So far, I'm certainly on track. Depending on turbo pieces, it will be CLOSE lol.
I plan on using ostrich for tuning. Looks extremely user friendly and I haven't heard too much negativity about it.

 

So I am a little stuck on what route to actually go for tuning. phearable.net has a chipped ecu with a basemap loaded on it according to my mods. Just waiting on a response from the sales team to let me know what I would need to tweak that tune. I am guessing at this point a burner and some way to datalog. I don't want to go over my proposed budget on this round but with bare bones maintenance items I needed and the mods I want to add, keeps me about 50 bucks shy of Hondata. Maybe Demon2 and Neptune? Ugh, then I have to socket and chip the thing myself. I despise electronics but will if I must. Any suggestions?

 

I have spent the last couple of years researching what can and can't be done with the D15B7.

I would suggest Neptune RPT so you can do your own tuning. It will stick with the car.

I'm assuming you have a 5 speed manual and not the automatic.

Your best option for the D15B7 is swap the cam out for the D16A6 cam. Everything else can be left as you have it, then tune the snot out of it.

Google search MistaBone/transzex Beast7. This is basically his build and it's a pretty peppy *** beast for the 1.5L NA motor.

Also, do not go over a 7200 rpm rev limit. That's the 5th gen vtec rev limit and the bottom end appears to be okay to that point but blows up pretty quickly past that. The rods are thin and the mains are smaller than the Z6 crank. So higher rpm is not recommended.

The Definitive D15B7 / A6 / ZC Cam Post - D-series.org

That has some pretty solid info above.

The other option is the D15Y8 mini-me to have vtec. You have to make sure to get the leak gasket for that build as the quench/squish zones won't be optimal with the thinner mls gaskets.

This is the route I will be going once we buy our townhouse and I have an actual garage to play in. My condo is starting to become such a hateful place to play with cars at.

My plan is stupidly expensive for a 1.5L in the end if I go all out though. First thing is to line bore the block to accept the D16Z6 crank so there is two oil holes per journal, then with forged rods D16Z6 rods and custom piston matching the specifications of the Civic GX piston and the Y8 head with a stage 2 or 3 cam (assuming it doesn't have P2V clearance issues) should net a pretty strong 8500-9000 RPM vtec 1.5L.

I'll know more when I mock up the motor with stock head and clay the pistons to see just how much higher lift can be added to the cam.

Anyways, those are probably the two best ways to pep up the B7.

 

Thanks for that! Yesterday was an incredibly boring day at work so I killed my downtime with some extensive searching on tuning options and Neptune was one of my finalists. I'm just not sure if I have the patience for a burner option. I've come across mistabone's build during my earlier B7 engine searches, I'd have to dig up my notebook somewhere to view notes. Lol. My original ideas were pretty far fetched I admit. I have a friend who's an engineer and discussed things with him and he got back with me about 2 months later with some very awesome plans and a price tag I swore was a ******* phone number... That was the deciding point I was going to keep things simple. He said that some minor items would need to be swapped out to keep integrity of the build, but nothing that would really warrant any major modding like Frankensteining engine parts. Though the rods are teeny bastards, they can handle a decent, albeit modest, amount of "umph" vs what the car is rated stock. 200% increase in power is phenomenal on stock internals for any vehicle. Keeping this in mind, if weight to power ratio remains below 10:1, she will certainly be peppy; so that gives me a very obtainable goal of 200 HP which the B7 has been tabbed as totally doable on just about stock everything. My plans aren't based upon pipe dreams or wishful thinking at all. I've certainly taken time to get a good grasp of the engine by doing much of this, , and plenty seat time.
The few additions I am adding now will allow me to justify playing with tuning for my rebuild. I will have a year to work with that and collect parts for the boost to come!

 

It's my understanding that Neptune RPT isn't a burnable solution, it's an always open tunable solution.

To burn a Neptune Chip you have to have a dealers license and it does away with the RPT portion.

As for 200 HP on the 1.5L B7..... Not without forced induction and that is just too much on the pencil rods.

To put it into perspective, Naturally Aspirated, Honda hand built the JDM B18C Type R engine. It is 197 BHP racing motor from a 1.8 Liter displacemnet.

General rule of thumb is 100 HP for every liter, so in reality, the 1.5L should be able to get close to 150 HP max.

To exceed that rule, it takes forced induction, and stock parts will not take that kind of abuse.

Bisimoto was the D-Series "god" and managed to push 170HP out of the D15B7 motor but he had serious time and money for cam profile research and head flow research etc.

If you can get your B7 to 140 BHP, you are doing phenomenal.

 

oh yeah don't get me wrong here! I have zero thoughts on getting any real power out of this thing N/A. With all my current bolt ons and a tune, I'm lucky if I see 110 to 115 HP. Bisi did well with his builds and then shifted to Porsche. Guess he reached the same dead end that most see. People shy away from the B7 and look to other platforms so those like Bisomoto stop or have long stopped supporting it because the following isn't there.
The problem I am looking to solve is this:
The stigma that is behind owning and modding a D15B7. Most people will scoff at the thought and pass the idea along to just swap it. People go on to trying to build it to the same extent as a B series or a Z6 and either can't find parts or blow the thing to pieces. There is a lack of understanding that the engine is a good platform itself, with limitations. If you want a modest build; that is easily achieved. When people are looking for info on this, it is a swamp of posts and information about swapping parts between the D's and converting to VTEC and so on. The B7 can itself be a fun build, if you're not power hungry. It just isn't meant to hold a ton of power and there are very limited options for aftermarket support. I intend on establishing a fresh, up to date perspective on a build to do just that, while keeping it within a budget that would be comparable to just a swap alone.

 

My response was in regard to your original response which is totally contrary to the response I just quoted above on every level.

You are the one that put some super unreal expectation on the B7 with stock parts..........

Really, the D15B7 stock is pretty maxed out. That is why there isn't much of a following for it.

With machining and aftermarket parts you can get some more out of it but it really depends on how much money you want to throw at it. And it's not that great of a gain versus the dollars.

And that is why other platforms are much preferred. Either, there is a lot more potential in another platforms with stock parts or there is a lot more gain for the dollars thrown at the other platforms.

 

Huh?



No I haven't... The fuel system itself is capable of supporting about 225-ish WHP boosted with a good tune. The internals are MOSTLY alright with a few limitations; subpar rod bolts, wrist pins and head bolts. Stock main bearings and head gasket are fine for more than what I want to throw at it. Stock rods HAVE LIMITATIONS on what they can handle but according to all the research I have done, states that they are good for up to 250HP. I didn't note whether or not that was CHP or WHP however. Other than that, on a GT28 setup at around 6-8 psi, stock should handle it well.

And this is what I have determined after a year of research. When I proposed my plans to an engineer buddy, he came to me with a few plans and an insane price on what it would cost to have the items I wanted custom made. at 230 dollars PER ROD; Combine that with the trial and error phase of installing custom machined parts never before tested, this sounded incredibly expensive. Add to the fact that there is barely a skeletal selection of stuff on the market now, also incredibly high priced, and you end up back at square 1. "what to do with the B7"



I call shenanigans on these statements, (it would technically be the only one so far I have actually disagreed with you on). First off, I never doubted better potential from other platforms. Where did I even hint at this? I said that the B7 gets passed on due to recommended swap advice. I said there is nothing new around with any real guidance on a build for the B7 that did not include a frankenstein setup of internals, a conversion to VTEC, etc. The potential of the B7 is not really there because it lacks the backing required to really get it where most people are trying to. Average boost build goals are 300-350whp. This is a lot for ANY Honda engine to handle that does not boast this from the factory. You need many upgrades to achieve this goal safely and parts are just not there. Z6, sure. B18, sure, B16, yup (following for that one is on a decline as well). My general point is this: you can build a "crazy" build IF you have the parts to do so. B7 simply does not. Does that mean you have to scrap it entirely? No. Modesty is the answer.

You seem to have maybe misunderstood my "tone" or something here. your last post came off as slight hostility mixed with aggravation. I asked for no real advice other than some input on some tuning programs, that is it really. I never attempted to dispute what you said, even though much of what you said seems to have been said after just skimming through my statements, or making your own interpretations. **shrug**

As I said in my first post here, I expect to receive some flack over this. No biggie really. The more folks laugh, the more I will enjoy them eating their words

Next round of parts to be arriving soon, install pics will follow along! Stay tuned if you wish

 

Jesus Christ, another millennial that thinks he's going to break new ground on single cam Hondas in 2017


I suggest you go take a look at the 85mm stock sleeve thread in the All Motor section, and see what it takes to make 250hp.

 

millenial.. lol.. I'm probably older than the others on this thread.. I suggest you read my first post.

Cheers!

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Increasing power for a given displacement is simple. All you have to do is increase the rpm of your peak-torque production (and all that entails). Enjoy!

If 1.5L can make 100 lb/ft of torque at the wheels (on a dyno), it would need do so at 13,000rpm to produce 247whp.

 

That clarifies a bit. You are talking forced induction, which on the D15B7 is pretty limited with the stock bottom end.

So really my statements as to why preference is around for other platforms still stands and is accurate.

But now that you've made it clear you are talking forced induction, your statement is a lot more clear. I am still skeptical you can safely pull 200 HP out of the B7 block for long but really, I'm not the one to talk to about FI.

Where it went sideways is I stated outright, Naturally Aspirated and you never indicated you were talking otherwise when you made your claim of 200 HP. The Segway was obviously missing which caused a significant WTF to occur.

Bottom line, take what ever money you spend on the B7 and spend it on any preferred platform and you will get more bang for the buck, period. That is why there is no following. You can disagree all you want but it is the plain and simple truth of the matter.

By the way you can get forged H beam rods that fit the B7 crank for about 250 USD a set, you just have to search for B2 forged rods to find them.

The B2 and B7 are essentially the same block.

 

And it's this RPM that will kill the motor due to the forces involved to switch direction.

The B7 is shorter rod so the angles are larger, which in turn means lower rpm capabilities.

Or at least that is how I understand it. It's why I want to put the longer D16Z6 rod in with the shorter wristpin piston of the GX. Figure the extra length will allow me to bring the RPM up into the 9000 range with forged rods.

 

Now we're on the same page! lol My first couple posts had the jist of what I am doing, the others were a few responses to other posts. Anywho. Yes, I know the 1.5 has limits and I am not in any disagreement that other platforms are better. I am providing a fresh perspective for those that wish to mod their B7 without spending tons of money, in a way that makes it a fun daily driver.
I have found parts out there that will work with or without modification (block notching, etc), but I am not looking for a ***** out build. So many people ask about the B7 and see what I saw; Mounds of OLD, discontinued, failed, HEAVILY modded projects that time forgot and have been cluttered with suggestions of swapping or ridicule. When I am complete, I propose to be at 180-190 WHP, 95% stock internals, and overall cost less or equal to a swap alone. I am really just trying to show the hidden jewel of an engine that so many people tried to push too hard. You wouldn't use a draft horse to run a race and you wouldn't use a quarter horse to pull a load of trees.. That's the B7 in a nutshell..

 

Regular maintenance stuff ordered along with Intake manifold, throttle body, Demon2/Neptune package. Can't really add something like the IM and TB without tuning The engine will be lacking rebuild, but all else will be done. I will rebuild at the time I go turbo. Total cost so far is under 1400. That includes all maintenance past and now, all current mods (intake, header, exhaust, shifter), and newly ordered items. The upcoming timeframe will be spent playing around with tuning while putting together a turbo kit. Can't really take advantage of the new mods I will have without tuning anyways.

Install pics coming soon!

 

Intake manifold and throttle body have arrived. Waiting for demon/Neptune. I'll get these out on by tomorrow sometime. Doing the silly timing belt as well. Oh boy, oh boy!

 

Intake manifold and throttle body installed. The butt dyno says there is a good improvement in midrange power. I'd probably be a bit peppier if I could breathe better too. Lol.

The install was about as straight forward as could be with 2 exceptions: the throttle cable bracket needed to be modified, and my IAT sensor needed to be relocated alone with the FPR vacuum source port. The red silicone hose is my new route for that. Lol. The port for the IAT sensor on the skunk2 was too small for my sensor so I plugged it and relocated it to my intake pipe. The throttle cable bracket was trickier, but easy enough. I just took a cutting wheel to it and made it sort of a "slide" style. Just grooved the center and done.