I am starting an integra LS turbo build on the non vtec b18b and am currently deciding between two ECU's that i can purchase at a good price. The choice is between a Haltech E11 V2 or a Microtech LT10S. I have run a microtech in the past and they are very easy to setup and tune but the software is crap and lacks some handy features which would make life easier however i can get the ecu and wire it up without needing anything else. On the other hand the Haltech E11 V2 will require separate purchase of a loom and sensors etc but will be easier to tune once all the settings are configured. The haltech maps can be downloaded etc while the microtech the ecu needs to go back to manufacturer to re configure for an engine combo.

Which would you choose, and for those that have experienced both ecus on a honda specifically a b18b what were the downfalls of each ecu.Tuning will be done by me.

Thanks

 

i would recommend a a p28 ecu with either hondata s300 or neptune rtp

 

Yup^

 

I'd do the Haltech. Screw that OEM ECU-socketed nonsense.

It's not just about cost, gentleman. It's about good use and tuner. He had two alternatives, a Hondata (thankfully) was not a choice.

 

Its nonsense because? Its cost effective. Judging by the way the question was worded, this is not going to be a 1000whp drag build where it would make sense to spend thousands on stand alone components.

 

Because they have been a pain in the *** from my experience. From tech support to socket issues, nothing beats a nice standalone.

Cost effective or not, those weren't his choices. You don't need a 1000whp to warrant Haltech's use. In fact, most Haltech users aren't even drag race users, their circuit and street users under 500whp.

Sorry, just my opinion and experience. I haven't used Hondata since 2004, and never will again.

 

Hondata S300 will work great for your build, but look at the EMS that your tuner uses.

 

Reading the whole post helps

Sounds like Haltech is the better of the two options for you, although as others have pointed out, there are cheaper options available.

 

Cheap, cheap, cheap..... I'm not baller by any means, but MAN UP PEOPLE!! That's why this forum gets the **** it gets!!

 

Knowing what I know now if I were starting over and didnt already own Hondata S300 I would go with Haltech for sure.

 

 

+1 for Haltech here. I used one for a different platform and I absolutely love how easy it is to setup and use. The customizable features are really nice also. The one thing that really gets me is how some people are willing to spend top dollar on their engine but skimp on the one thing that helps it perform to its full potential reliably.

 

Haltech for sure, I ran a Microtech LT10s on the drag car for a long time and it worked but you were very feature limited and we ran into spark issues with it running the distributor, alcohol fuel and 30 psi boost. "Upgrading" to a Direct Fire (COP) with 60-2 trigger system on the LT10s resulted in months of frustration, misfires, starting and sync issues !

Microtech is good for Rotarys and SR20's, which it was originally intended for, but there are much better options out there now. Just verify that the E11v2 uses their Windows based interface and not a variation of the DOS software like the E6X,K etc which isn't really supported and quite outdated.

 

Thanks for the help every one, decided to go with the Haltech in the end due to microtechs lack of decent software to tune with and map save feature just to name a few shortcomings. Haltech has almost every feature i need plus tunable to no end and data logging.

Now its time to look for basemaps that i can import into the haltech to start tuning, i found a few stock eprom bin files off a b18b, will see how easy it will be to convert this into a haltech format.

Hondata was on the list previously but ended up deciding against it because of price compared to what i could get a haltech or a microtech for. If only the stock ecu was tunable without having to burn chips or install a chip like the evo ecu is .

ps the haltech software for the E11 and E8 is a windows based system and not DOS so thats a big bonus.

 

Maybe that's your problem. Hondata (and all EMS based off a stock ecu) have come a long-*** way since 2004.

The original Hondata systems were nothing compared to what they have now.

 

I'll bite. So what has changed? Since you're an engineer and software developer please explain the finer details. I don't want to know the features as I can find that off of their website. I want to know how Hondata's processing capabilities have improved over the years and how their architecture compares to other standalones.

 

I will be doing a Megasquirt install on a B18C ITB motor real soon. I really like the full sequential MS3/MS3X stuff. The data logging is golden.

 

Obviously the core architecture of the ECU has remained the same because it's based off the stock ECU.

The new Hondata s300 v3 hardware does have its own processor for interfacing with the PGM-FI board. The hardware adds some analog and digital inputs on it's own board.

I don't know which Hondata you used previously but the first versions were no more than a rom editor and a burner like crome, eCtune. They then developed a realtime programmer and logger interface and upgraded it several times over the years, as far as I know the new v3 was updated in 2013 last. The newest version has bluetooth output for gauges and datalogging.

You said you don't care about features, but features make up most of a tuning system. Of course, all the features in the world won't account for shitty or limiting hardware. The features I've seen in hondata seem to be fairly well implemented. The digital input allows you to log the output of sensor moduless that support it (like my PLX Wideband), negating any error caused by analog issues.

It supports COP with an addon module, has most features youd expect from any EMS. I'm personally not yet using Hondata in my car (using ectune which is about the closest you'll get to hondata without an addon board) but am seriously considering it. I seriously considered demon/neptune as well but chose hondata partly due to the digital input and the bluetooth being built in instead of an addon module.

That said, I am also seriously considering something else. The cost of Hondata is a bit more than I think it should be and part way to a standalone.

Though, for most people, running a Honda motor with a Honda ECU is a good way to go and provides good and reliable results quickly (there's basemaps for almost all honda motors).

If you're not familiar, moates also makes the Demon board which is a similar addon board to Hondata and has many similar features especially when paired with Neptune.

I should also state that this is all in direct relation to the S300 v3, Honda also makes kpro and flash pro for k series cars.

 

Architecturally speaking, all EMS are basically realtime computers with lots of analog inputs and outputs.

For most engines, not a lot of power is required especially when the software is all assembly / machine code instructions.

That said, PGM-FI's processing capabilities, in my experience, are more than enough for the software they run.

It's still an 8 bit computer though and if you want/require finer grained control, then of course a standalone EMS may be best.

 

See..That's the thing..The solution to my "problem" in 2004 was already solved with much better processor that allowed all of what I needed with very few gauges, and less work from the tuner, to boot. I've seen the system change and grow, and it works well for others, just not my cup of tea based upon my needs. And power isn't the worry, believe me.

Instead of fighting with it, or waiting for them to get their act together, I sold the system and gladly moved on. No counterfeit parts issues, no garbage support. Just done, and done. COP setup and all..

The solution was standalone, and as stated, for the cost of all that nonsense Hondata sells as their package, I can have my Haltech and be forever happy. A few dollars more was just worth the damn headache.

You won't convince me otherwise, so save the sales pitch rhetoric, please. :-). The OP was looking at two options. That's it.

 

Show me where I said I didn't care about features.

Of all the ECUs you mentioned, I will agree Hondata will probably be the best out of all of them. However if you can afford the jump to a proper standalone (which by the way is not that much more than a Hondata unit), you can bet there will be no going back. The thread linked below even shows a stock K20Z1 picking up a couple hp just by switching to Haltech from Hondata. Features aside, that alone should say something about how different ECUs operate. Anyway the OP has made up his mind and Hondata wasn't even one of his choices.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-mo...k20z1-2855624/

 

Honestly after playing around with Megasquirt on my friend's car, I have to say it's a pretty good ECU for the price point. Definitely better than Hondata.

 

My D motor lit on the second twist of the key with a fresh Megasquirt install.

http://www.nbs-stl.com/CRX/CRX%20Interior%20Wiring.jpg

http://www.nbs-stl.com/CRX/CRX%20Engine.jpg

Here is the entire wiring diagram that will run almost any 4 cylinder in full sequential on a standard Megasquirt MS3/MS3X

http://www.nbs-stl.com/CRX/Civic%20CRX%20Wiring.jpg

Andy

 

1. I didn't suggest Hondata.
2. I don't disagree for a bit extra that a standalone isn't a better option, but a 'bit' is still a variable both in price and in people's decisions.
3. I never said Hondata was better than anything, except maybe Crome or eCtune.
4. You said you don't want to know the features, thus me saying you didn't care for me to list them though I was saying it may be important to consider.

You ask how the architecture and processing capabilities have changed, obviously this will never happen as it is an extension of a stock ecu while a pretty damn good one, was still designed in the late 80s.

Hondata is what, $450 US? A haltech pnp is $1400, probably more for a universal ecu that you can keep for different car in the future and then you need custom harnesses / adapters.

It's definitely worth $1000 more in capabilities especially to the right user, but for most it's not.

Discussing this here is all moot since the OP made his choice and neither of his options were something based off PGM-FI.

 

I refer you to my previous post. Again, I never recommended it (wouldn't have, the OP had 2 choices) nor did I say anything but that it had come a long way since 2004.