Hi first off im new to the forums and would like to say hello to everyone, my name is Austin. I'm new to Accords as I've owned Integras and Civics up until now and quickly finding out they are quite different (motor wise anyway. I don't know anything about f series motor lol) just by fixing a few a few problems my car had when i got it. With that said I've recently bought a 96 Accord with an f22b2 in it. I was told the valves just needed adjusted and that would fix the tick. I adjusted them back to spec and that just made the tick twice as loud so obviously there is a much deeper problem than that. It's definitely not a rod knock or anything else in the block as the sound is most certainly coming from the head. What does this sound like to you guys?

 

And if it's not worth fixing, I'm also looking into swapping the head for a vtec b1 head. What all would I need to swap it?

 

Check for an exhaust leak at the exhaust manifold gasket using the seafoam method in the brake booster.

 

Already repaired this. Replaced the gasket and there was a small crack in the manifold so I just got a new one and put it on. Although it did quiet the noise down some, the noise is still there. The tick is coming from the exhaust side though cause when I put my ear close to the intake side the motor sounds fine.

 

 

smoke test the exhaust for leaks if you know anyone into hardcore vaping it'll speed up the process vs using a smoke machine or leak down tester, cigars work too

 

I'll try later today. But I'm certain it's not the exhaust. It has brak new skunk2 exhaust, the headers were just eBay, that's why they rusted out. And why would the sound be so loud at my head if the exhaust is leaking at, say, the test pipe.

 

here's some info from NATEF might help:

Performing a Cylinder Leakage Test
There are a couple of critical steps needed to make sure the cylinder leakage test is accurate. First, the engine should be near operating temperature, which will ensure that oil has been circulated to the piston rings to help them seal. Next, it is helpful to loosen each of the spark plugs about one turn for the cylinders you will be testing and then run the engine at 1500 rpm for 10 to 15 seconds. This process helps blow out any chunks of carbon that were straddling the spark plug to cylinder head gap that break off when the spark plugs are removed. If you do not do this, it is possible for one of these chunks of carbon to get stuck between a valve and valve seat, holding the valve open slightly and producing a false reading.
Since the cylinder leakage test is usually only performed on a cylinder with low compression, you must remove only the spark plug for the cylinder you are testing and the spark plug for each of the cylinders next to that one. If the suspect cylinder is in the middle of the bank, then you will need to remove the spark plug on either side. If the suspect cylinder is at the end of the bank, then you will need to remove only the nearest spark plug. It also helps to remove the air cleaner assembly and radiator cap for listening purposes during the test.
Cylinder leakage is measured when the piston is on top dead center on the compression stroke. This means that you will have to turn the crankshaft to position each piston in this position before pressurizing the system. The challenge is that the piston, connecting rod, and crankshaft throw must be in near perfect alignment; otherwise the pressure on the piston from the cylinder leakage tester will push the piston down, which turns the crankshaft. If this happens, then the intake or exhaust valve will open, depending on which way the piston ends up turning the crankshaft.
The hardest part is getting the piston exactly on top dead center. There are two primary ways to do so. One is to screw the cylinder leakage tester into the spark plug hole and then slowly turn the engine over by hand while lightly floating your thumb over the end of the hose to feel pressure and vacuum. When you feel the transition from pressure to vacuum, turn the engine in the opposite direction slightly and stop right as the pressure stops and before the vacuum begins. It takes experience to get the feel for this. The second way is to use a plastic straw that fits down the spark plug hole and that can be pushed up by the piston without damaging the cylinder or piston. Rotate the engine by hand until the piston is as high as it will go, as indicated by the plastic straw. While the piston is on top dead center, you will not know if it is on the top of the compression stroke or the exhaust stroke until you pressurize the cylinder (unless the engine is equipped with a distributor and you can see where the rotor is pointing). If it is wrong, turn the engine one complete revolution and try it again.
To perform a cylinder leakage test, follow the steps in SKILL DRILL 10-9:
1
Remove the spark plug of the low-compression cylinder and any adjacent spark plugs. Install the cylinder leakage tester adapter hose into the spark plug hole. (Photo 1)
2
Position the piston for the cylinder being tested at top dead center on the compression stroke. You can do this by making sure you feel air escaping the cylinder leakage hose when you are turning the crankshaft by hand. (Photo 2)
3
Connect the compressed air hose to the tester and adjust the tester so it reads zero. (Photo 3)
4
Connect the cylinder leakage adapter hose to the tester.
5
Make sure the engine does not turn over. If the engine turns over, you will need to reset the piston back to the compression stroke. Record the reading. (Photo 4)
6
Listen for leakage from the oil fill hole, the throttle body, and the exhaust pipe, and look for bubbles in the radiator. Determine any necessary actions. (Photo 5)




CYLINDER LEAKAGE TEST OVERVIEW
The cylinder leakage test is performed on a cylinder with low compression to determine the severity of the compression leak and where the leak is located. Compressed air is applied to the cylinder through a tester that is calibrated to show the amount of cylinder leakage as a percent of air entering the cylinder. An ideal reading is close to 0%. But since piston rings have a small gap between their ends to allow for expansion as the engine heats up, a cylinder will not be sealed 100%. There will almost always be at least a small amount of leakage past the piston ring gaps. Typically manufacturers will consider up to 20% cylinder leakage past the piston rings acceptable, but the smaller the leakage, the better. Although it is OK to have a small amount of leakage past the piston rings, it is not OK to have any leakage past one of the valves or the head gasket. Leaks at these places mean the engine likely has a major mechanical engine issue.
The point of this test is to measure how much air is leaking as well as to determine where it is leaking from. The gauge tells you the percentage of air leaking from the cylinder, so that is straightforward. Determining where the air is leaking from is a bit more challenging. Because there is always some air leaking past the piston rings, you will be able to hear some air leaking out of the oil fill hole when the oil fill cap is removed. If that is the only leak that you end up diagnosing, then the gauge will indicate if the leakage past the piston rings is excessive.
If an exhaust valve is burnt or warped, then you will hear leakage out of the exhaust pipe. If the intake valve is burnt or warped, then you will hear leakage out the air intake system. There should be no leakage past either of the valves, so any leak in the exhaust or intake is a bad leak. If the head gasket is blown, then you will either hear air coming out of an adjacent spark plug hole or see bubbles in the coolant when the radiator cap is removed.

TECHNICIAN TIP
There are a couple of ways that a technician can get in trouble when interpreting the results of a cylinder leakage test. First, if a valve is being held open due to a piece of carbon, or not enough valve lash, then the problem could be misdiagnosed. To verify a leaky valve, remove the valve cover and verify that the valve has the proper valve lash. Also try tapping the valve open with a soft hammer while watching the cylinder leakage gauge. If tapping on the valve stops the leakage, there was likely some carbon holding the valve slightly open. If the valve is being held open by the valve train, try adjusting the valve and retest the valve for leakage. You should know that a valve that had too little valve lash is likely to be burnt. The longer it was operated with too little clearance, the more likely it is burnt.


VACUUM TESTING
No Image
FIGURE 10-8
Vacuum trace.
A vacuum gauge is used to determine the engine’s general condition. The vacuum gauge reading shows the difference between outside atmospheric pressure and the amount of vacuum (manifold pressure) in the engine. The vacuum gauge is installed in a vacuum port on the intake manifold. Always select the largest and most centrally located vacuum port. This may require using a vacuum tee so that the vacuum gauge can be connected and, at the same time, vacuum can still be supplied to the existing component. The typical vacuum reading for a properly running engine at idle is a steady 17" to 21" of vacuum (57.6 to 71.1 kPa) TABLE 10-1. A low reading could relate to a problem with ignition or valve timing. A sharp oscillation back and forth in the needle or a dip in the gauge reading could relate to a problem such as a bad valve. A low reading at a constant 2500 rpm could indicate a restricted exhaust system.
With the advent of lab scope diagnostics, many technicians are using a pressure transducer to measure the engine’s manifold pressure and display it graphically on a lab scope. The pressure transducer is a very accurate measuring tool; when attached to a vacuum port and hooked up to a lab scope, it gives a pressure trace that shows the low pressure created by each piston’s intake stroke FIGURE 10-8. If the ignition pattern for cylinder 1 is monitored on a separate trace, the vacuum pulses can be tied to specific cylinders. Technicians can view these traces and see how well each cylinder is functioning at producing and maintaining a vacuum.
Table 10-1: Chart of Vacuum Readings—Vacuum Gauge
Reading Indication
17" to 21", steady needle at idle. Good reading
Needle oscillates back and forth about 4" to 8". Burned or constantly leaking valve
A low and steady reading. Possible late valve timing or late ignition timing
Snap acceleration needle drops to zero and then only reads 20" to 23" of vacuum; should be much higher, around 27". Possible worn rings
Good reading at idle. As engine speeds up to a steady 2500 rpm, the needle slowly goes down and may continue to drop. Possible restricted exhaust system

TECHNICIAN TIP
A pressure transducer can be adapted to fit in the spark plug hole to create a pressure trace of running and cranking compression. It can also be used in the exhaust system to measure the exhaust pulses. Pressure transducers are used more and more commonly when diagnosing engine problems.

 

I don't think it would be my rings. It's a tapping noise which once again is CLEARLY coming from the head. The car runs excellent and doesn't burn any oil which I thought if your rings were bad that your car starts looking like a diesel after a short while and the previous owner said it's been making the noise for a good 10-15k miles. And if I had bad compression wouldn't the car have a miss and run crappy? It has great throttle response, gets up and goes, and since I adjusted the valves the car is pretty quick honestly. So once again give me suggestions of what could be wrong with THE HEAD.

 

These engines are known to tick a bit, also have to take into consideration that they are a bit older.

How old is your oil?

Try adjusting your exhaust valves on the tighter side of the OEM specs. 0.30mm ± 0.02mm is Honda's spec for the exhaust valves on these engines. So running a 0.28mm or even 0.26mm clearance would be my suggestion.

 

The fact that it's running fine, most likely a chunk of carbon floating around in there. If you're planning to upgrade to vtec anyway, just do that and don't worry about the old head.

 

GhostAccord well the motor itself has only 110k on it. Guy gave me paperwork to prove it so it's not even broke in yet lol. And I just changed the oil when I got the car. And the specs I found were .010in for Intake and .012in for Exhaust. So i should try maybe .011 on the exhaust side? Also I did do it while the engine was pretty warm so would that make a difference and throw off the measurements? this was my first go at adjusting valves so bear with me haha.

And Nicholas Bailey I was going to do it but since reading up on it I've changed my mind. Seems like a huge headache just for a 10-15 hp difference so if I was to buy a new head if just replace it with a b2 head. But I'd rather try fixing the problem first rather than replacing the head. The sound is just SO ANNOYING lol.

 

Well I might've just figured out my problem. I'm just learning that I was suppose to turn my crankshaft and and adjust them 1-3-4-2 not all at once. I've only drove the car roughly 100 miles like this. Please tell me I haven't done damage to my engine! I'm readjusting the CORRECT way tomorrow morning. Once again this my first go at adjusting valves.

 

I'm glad you decided not to install vtec. There's quite a bit more to it than replacing the head. It's much easier and far less headache to just buy a car that already has it.

Your new information does shed some light on the problem. The good news is that you didn't do irreparable damage to your car. The bad news is that the ticking is likely a valve hitting a piston. You're gonna want to replace both if that's the case. Checking is simple though it's visual so you'll have to remove the head anyway to confirm that's what it is. If you do have to replace a valve and piston, might as well also get an engine rebuild kit for it.

 

Correction, you should be able to check it without removing the head. Use a mechanic stethoscope and turn the engine manually and listen closely for the tick. If every time the piston reaches TDC it ticks then remove the head and inspect the piston for damage. If any valves were in the full open position when the piston was TDC there will be a dent in the piston and some damage to the valve as well. If the valve still closes and retains compression in that cylinder, you may be able to get away with keeping the valve, but I'd recommend replacing. The piston would have to be replaced no matter what. Any pings, dents, gouges etc will cause the piston to have hot spots and may result in pre- ignition and deisiling.

 

Well this is just terrible news. Hopefully you're wrong but my luck here lately you're probably right on the money. Idk if this changes your thinking but the tick is much louder at cold start then quiets down after the engine warms up. Also it seems to be completely gone at around 2500 to 3k rpms. But anything under 2.5k you can hear it

 

I could be wrong. I've been many times before. If you can remove the oil pan without lifting the engine then changing a piston isn't too bad though very tedious. See if you can get your hands on an inspection camera small enough to fit in the spark plug opening. You can inspect for damage that way without removing anything more than a spark plug. Its a trade off. Money for convenience, inspection cameras cost a bit. Anyway, with luck it's something else. Your car might have enough clearance that even with the piston TDC and valve full open not hit. Any previous modifications to increase compression (really thin head gasket, shaved head etc) makes it more likely to be a valve/piston ping.

 

If you hit the piston and bent a valve the engine would be running poorly. I just diagnosed a CR-V with this very issue. Idle was rough and no power under load.

My suggestion would be to follow the valve adjustment procedure as per the Honda shop manual. Engine is to be cool (ambient temperature) and do one cylinder at a time while rotating it each to TDC.

For what it's worth, even cheaper than an inspection camera is a cylinder compression tester. Only need to remove the spark plug for this test as well. It will tell you if you kissed any valves with your piston or not.

 

its not a compression test its a cylinder leak test valves dont always seat/seal properly just because you do a valve lash. The info posted is for the head, if you read the post it could still help you determine which VALVES CLEARLY ARE NOT SEALING PROPERLY

 

I'm talking about a compression test. It can also show you if your valves are not sealing. Yes a leak down is definitely a more precise test to do for testing the combustion chamber seal. No debate there, just giving a cheaper option. However, In this case, I'm pretty sure adjusting the valves properly will cure the tick! There should be no need for test equipment on this one.

You have to remember not everyone on this site has access to a fully equipped diagnostics shop, quite the opposite most times! The easiest and cheapest route is usually what they are looking for.

 

a shop isnt needed for the leak down just someone that smokes or vapes if you rotate the crankshaft so the exhaust valves are open and the intake valves are closed with the spark plug removed blow a couple puffs of smoke into the cylinder if it comes out the the throttle body the intake valves arent sealing is all i was getting at preferably someone that into the vaping the smoke is denser than just a cigarette

 

Seriously. That is not a leak down test. Sure it is a cheap and reasonable way to do a seal test. I usually just hook up an air hose through the spark plug hole and pump air into the cylinder. You then listen for air leaking into the exhaust at the tail pipe, into the intake through the throttle body and past the rings through the oil fill cap.

However, A leak down test requires a set of gauges with a predetermined air pressure pumped into the cylinder for a set amount of time. The pressure loss during that time is then written down and the percentage of leak down is calculated. That is a proper leak down test and you are correct, it doesn't have to be done in a shop. That being said, you need more than an e-Cig or Vaping friend to do it!