Edit: Posted this here since my build is not towards a race track, drag race or stuff, its a street car build, if admins think this post belongs to an other subforum, I apologize and request its transfer, I did read the rules.

Hey guys, been reading this forum for a looooong time now and always as a spectator and well, this is my first post here. I have a project in mind for my car but, to be really honest, I'm a bit confused if I'm totally crazy, or if its doable. First some info about my car:

Honda Accord EX Coupe 1996 Automatic Engine F22B VTEC
59.000 miles (real miles, no time travel)
All stock.
Since I bought it (2 years ago) maintained with LM oil and K&N filters
1 timing belt replacement (with all the other belts oc)
Major fixes: Only Heads gasket 5 years ago
Worries: It has never had the trans oil changed and I'm afraid to change it and ruining it.
Gas: 95 octanes

Now whats my idea: I want to build a "reliable fun every day driving car".
What's fun for me? a BALANCED car, relatively fast with awesome handling that could even see track action just for fun, not trying to beat a prepared car and not only good HP but good torque as well.
What's an every day driving car for me? A car pleasant an easy to drive every day, no noises, street legal, no unpleasant gear shifts, basically a very comfortable car.
What's reliable for me? This 1996 stock accord is the definition of reliability, a car on which its engine and other parts almost never fail, a car that you can keep for the rest of your life while you maintain it as regularly as needed (even if that's every 1000 km)

Who I'm, what are my resources? Well I'm an electronics engineer with computer science formation as well, I specialize in embedded systems and programming, I'm a self learning person and so I have studied mechanics on my own (with books and everything) and practiced with the cars of my friends (thnks God I still haven't blown it up). I live in an apartment and so I can only do bolts on stuff and stuff where I dont have to take the engine out, I do everything in the apartment parking spot. I pretend to spend at most 10.000 including absolutely everything.

How do I plan to do it:

My general plan is to first swap the tranny for an h23 with LSD manual trans, take out the engine and sleeve it, change all the internals inside from bearings to valves and put forged performance parts (was thinking on Bisimoto and Skunk2 but dunno what brand for sleeves) , check the clearances and all. Put a turbo on it and try to make 300 whp (no ideas on brands here). Replace radiator, wirings, ECU, coil, etc... for performance parts. Spend as much as needed in a tuning it (I plan to contact KBS here in Chile as they r the best guys around). Replace the disc brakes for ventilated aftermarket units (was thinking on stoptech), get a bit stiffer suspension + a tinny bit lowered ride (no idas on brands here neither), do exhaust (was thinking on Magnaflow), handmade mani (I have the guy here in Chile) and some weight cuttings.

Whats the important part here? Balance, always. Control of the car. I dont want uncontrollable 700 hp or 500 hp that cant manage a turn. I dont want to have troubles in a traffic jam or in a red light. What am I willing to sacrifice? Power, I prefer to sacrifice power if that's going to give me a better ride and better track times and I'm willing to go as low as necessary, 300 would just be the ideal.


My questions:

Is it possible to build what I'm pretending?
Building the engine to withstand 600 hp will make my 300 hp goal more reliable or will be just wasting money and I should avoid "over-building" it?
Is 10.000 enough for what I pretend?
Will you tell me "sell your car, add those 10.000 and buy something newer closer to your goals"?
Do you have any ideas of what brands to check out and other places to look at?
Would a Swap make a more reliable build than turbocharging the F22B?

What makes my research difficult is that most of the ppl want "as much power as possible, I dont care about anything else and the tightest of the budgets possible, that is, get in the limit of my engine blowing up every day for the money"

 

Personally, I wouldn't do an auto-manual swap. Too many headaches and manual Accords aren't impossible to find.

You don't need to change internals at all to hit 300whp, the F22B motors are fairly resilient to boost - there's plenty of guys doing this.

You also shouldn't re-invent the wheel, the ECU you'd need to swap out (not sure if Chile has OBDII or OBDI or how that works) but down-converting to OBDI (95 or earlier Accords are here in the US) would be preferable with a P28 chipped ECU.

There's a Forced Induction section on Honda-Tech with an entire thread dedicated to F series motors it'd be worth looking at.

 

Hey dude, thnks for answering. Well, sadly, in Chile, the Accord coupe is a very very rare car, it has never been sold, you have to import it from the US directly. Same thing with manual transmission accords, I know of only 1 in Chile and maybe there are 20 total. Of my 96 automatic accord ex coupe there are around 4 in Chile. If I could, be sure I wouldnt swap the trannies, thats pretty dumb to do if u could just sell the car and buy an other one.
I know that I shouldnt have to rebuild for 300 whp but my question is if rebuilding it will assure more reliability or none at all and will juts be a waste of money? I want to rebuild only to be sure I keep the reliability as close to stock as possible but I dont know if it will help, maybe it will just be wasting my money. I have actually read tons of posts on F22B (specially those where they ask h22 swap or f22 boost), i know pretty well its capabilities but I dont know if that extra bit of insurance will pay after lets say 10 years or not.
My ECU is OBDII.
And do u think 10.000 is ok for the project (not taking in count labor, just parts)

 

Only 59Kmiles? Pffft, thats nothing, but it is old fluid, change it by draining/refilling 3X. These trans will last just about forever if you don't abuse or overheat them.

 

Wow, awesome news dude, I'm quite respectful with automatic transmissions (Actually its more like I dont like them lol) so I thought it could be dangerous. This weekend I'm changing it then with the 3 times procedure.

 

The first thing you should do, if you truly want a balanced car, is sort out the suspension and brakes then begin to add power later. If the chassis can't handle the extra power you intend to add, the results will be potentially disastrous.

Accord V6 brakes are a cheap upgrade. 11.1" rotors vs the 10.2" on the stock 4 cylinder models. Calipers are the same as an ITR or Prelude VTEC. Stainless lines help with pedal feel. Hawk HPS pads or some other heavy duty street pad that will grip nicely and resist fade. Good fluid so you don't have to worry about it boiling when you're romping on it and stopping a lot.

Suspension. You definitely want stiffer springs and better shocks. There are many ways of how to accomplish this. You could get one piece coilovers but they're limited in customization when it comes to spring rates from most manufacturers. Depending on your overall intentions with the car will tell you how stiff a spring and how aggressive a shock absorber you want. Replacing bushings with polyurethane equivalents and replacing the rear sway bar with a larger diameter one will help greatly with handling as well.

Tires will be the #1 most important mod when it comes to having any of these things do their jobs correctly and efficiently so don't overlook that. Bad or low quality tires will increase braking distance, compromise handling, etc.

As for power, if you want to make anymore than stock the automatic needs to go really...I boosted an Auto Accord for a few months and the transmission rapidly let go at only about 220whp. Manual swap and a good clutch(but not too much clutch) will be the key here.

For power, a stock, healthy F22 will laugh at 300whp all day from a turbo setup. Just sort out the maintenance items, drop in a set of ARP headstuds for insurance, get good quality turbo components and a good tune and it will last you for years and years. They have an excellent powerband with torque throughout the whole rev range when boosted.

 

Only use Honda ATF transmission fluid - that is my recommendation.


Yikes...good luck with the auto - manual tranny swap. I completed that on my car and not only was it a pain in the ***, but after nearly 1 year and 300 miles later, it stopped going into any gear. Back in January I said f*ck it, I am going to enjoy my car instead of driving it only 300 miles in 2 years and just convert it back. Working on it every once in awhile and dealing with all the headaches, it is back to an auto but I need to check out the CEL, replace the brake safety switch, and put on the bumper cover. Once that is done, ill be back to auto and can enjoy the car once more.

It was expensive and the constant scenario of working on it and getting stuff done and then realizing you are missing a bolt, having to go to the dealership, order one bolt, wait a couple days, and then continue got old very fast. My dealer knows me by full name now and doesn't require a deposit on any parts I order no matter how cheap or expensive because ive gone in there 400 million times the past year or two.



good luck! Sorry to be a debby downer!

 

Aradin: Wow, thnks a lot for the reccomendations and dont worry, those were exactly my plans in terms of the order of doing the things, thats exactly why this post is here, why its called Balanced Accord and its not in the FI forum. Thnks specially on mentioning the precise brakes to go with, I was fairly lost on that topic.

19Accord97: Well, to be really honest, I'm starting to have MANY second thoughts on doing any mod at all (If I'm not building THE machine, I prefer doing nothing and keeping it a flawless stock). Your post is the kind of things that, when u go ahead and u just do it and get the headaches, u say "Omg, why nobody told me about this befoooore" so thnks for that.

The reason I wanted to do it to the Accord is cuz I'm quite picky when I must decide for a car. I have only 3 cars at my top top list and the other 2 have the problem that 1 is a pain in the *** and the other one is non practical at all (thnks god I have driven Ferraris and the such and they dont make my list ):

Miata and RX-8
So I wanted to try with my Accord to achieve the fun it lacks from the miata and the RX-8 but your post has lit on the red light in my mind. Will have to research even more on that topic. I saw a guide somewhere (probably was this forum) with very clear and precise step by step instructions for the swap and seemed to be fools proof but I will give it more readings (when I find it).

 

If you want to try turbo, look at the F20b instead. They usually come with the manual trans on eBay for about 1700usd, the cylinders are already iron sleeved, so new pistons, maybe rods are all you would have to do.

 

I want to avoid Swap at all costs, in case I'm forced to I will go NA H22. Thnks for your idea.

 

I don't mean to dissuade you from doing a auto-manual swap, but that was my experience. Many others have done it and not had any issues. More than likely, the issue of the transmission is inside of the manual transmission I bought from a junkyard that only had 86,000 miles on it according to them. But, until my buddy opens it up, who knows.

I try to do as much as I can with my car in terms of repairs, upgrades, and modifications and by far the tranny swap is the most advanced thing I have done to it. I never received any sort of auto repair training nor took any auto classes so I have just been learning as I go and following DIY's and How Tos.

Check out the auto-5spd swap on HondaSociety.com. It is on the 5th gen forum and will be at the very top since it has been stickied. It provides GREAT information and I asked a ton of questions on it as well, so that should help too.

The manual swap did make the car feel very different, not only is the manual tranny much lighter (i can carry it around) whereas the auto is heavy as hell and practically takes 2 people due to its weight and odd bulkiness.


If the car is in great shape, it'd be a great cruiser. Do the suspension, appearance mods, and a few others things and I am sure you'll love it!

Im not on H-T that much anymore, but I will check back here every so often if you have questions. MadMike, HolmesManny, GhostAccord, and MuffinMan are experts on Accords here.

 

That may be relevant if it were possible to find aftermarket internals for an F20B. Bisi has since abandoned his Honda roots, or so it appears, and no longer carries them the last I checked. Even so, they were priced very high compared to other internals for more popular engines. There are combinations of forged internals from various platforms(that includes DSMs...) that will work but for 300whp it's really not needed anyway. I'm making over 300whp on a bone stock F20B currently. The stock F22 is more than capable of that as well and will actually have more torque.

 

Thats the reason I'm going for F22 turbo and not H22 swap which would be much cleaner.

 

19Accord97: Thnks for the reply, I will balance all my options and every single "personal experience" I find, after all, reality is no more than every single personal experience put together so the many I know the better. I have plenty of time since I'm unemployed now and so I'm using the time to plan everything out as perfect as I can, since I dont have the money I cant rush. Thnks for the nicks list as well, I have seen their posts a lot (specially ghost accord's ones)

 

I'd leave that nice minty motor alone as a spare, and build one up on the side.
You said $10k, geez, so many options.