I recently had a valve adjustment done, after which it started sometimes making ticking noises (I drove it 2 or 3 times). Took it back to the work shop who diagnosed it as needing new LMAs. Drove it home as they couldn't work on it yet (in hindsight I should have left it there). On the way home it got noticeably worse, to the point of having a pretty bad chatter. I haven't started it since then. Ordered new LMAs (OEM B18CR, new type etc etc).

So my question is it safe to drive it the 40 km (25 miles) back to the shop to get repaired, or get it towed? I understand what the LMA's do but not what happens exactly if they don't do it. Obviously I wouldn't go near vtec.

 

you should pull the valve cover & top timing cover off. then check the valve lash with a feeler gauge and a few wrenches (you'l need a flat head if they need adjustment). Tapping is usually attributed to valve lash, I've never heard of LMA's going bad or causing tapping sounds. Dunno, i think the valve lash is worth checking tho.

 

It is a safe bet that there is something rapidly going bad with either the valve lash or the LMA. If the problem is with valve lash, I would take "hondur" advice and check the valve lash before you even start that engine. If the problem lies in the LMA department, just take that 25 miles drive slowly and you should be fine

On a side note: Valve adjustment is an art especially on high milage engine. Take it to somebody who live and breathe on the B-series and you will get the best result.

 

Im with these guys ^^^ My first thought was that whoever did that valve lash adjustment probably didnt do it right. I wouldnt start that motor until it was checked again by someone that is highly reliable in that department.

I dont know too much about LMAs so I cant comment on that piece.

 

Once the valvecover is off, you can "feel" the LMA action by pushing down on the center rocker. If one LMA feels different compared to all the rest (too easy/difficult to compress, or even sticky), you know you have a bad LMA.

LMAs are tough to compress by hand. If you attempt to use a tool like a flat-head to push on the rocker, definitely DO NOT even touch the slipper pad. There is a lip sticking out of the end of the rocker that you can gently push on. Just BE CAREFUL! You might consider wrapping your flat-head with a layer of electrical tape to be safe.

The lip at the tips of the rockers can be seen here...

 

Thanks for all the advice! I am pretty confident that the valve adjustment will be fine, the shop that did it is a Honda specialist, they also said it was LMAs when I took it back to them. I do find it odd that (possibly) the LMA's have gone out immediately after the valve adjustment though...

94eg thanks for that advice. I might try that and see if I can confirm any LMAs are different to the others.

 

I would definitely verify the valve clearance while you're in there. Some mechanics attempt shortcuts that can lead to poor settings. I am a bit surprised the didn't pop the lid off and re-verify their work since noise developed directly afterward (seems unethical).

Make sure the engine is cold and make sure each cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke when you check it's 4 valves. I use this gauge cause it has so many sizes. The angle is really nice to have on some engines. For $15 it's fantastic: Craftsman.com

I like to use the pass-no-pass method where correct size slides fine, but the next size up won't slide through at all (without force). On the B-series VTEC you measure the gap between the cam and rocker arm (not rocker & valve).

Intake .006 - .007 in
Exhaust .007 - .008 in

 

Same gauges I use.

Everyone has their own "feel" for doing this. After you've done it a few times you can kinda just feel if its right. Then you dont have to pay someone to do it and can bang it out pretty quickly.

I like a "tight" .007 on the intake side (.006 slides in pretty easily, but .007 is pretty sticky or tight), and a "tight" .008 on the exhaust side (.007 slides in pretty easy). IIRC, tighter than OEM specs will probably make the valve ticking noise non-existent and will feel sluggish.

Also some options to "rebuild" the LMAs. Not sure how well this works but new ones arent cheap. Heres an example

 

Or you can buy the spring version LMAs and not have to worry about sticking LMAs. There's a thread somewhere on here that talks about the 2 types.

 

I ordered the new spring type LMAs after the workshop said they were the issue. Honda NZ provide discounts via our local forum so it was about $95 USD for all eight. Seemed super cheap so I jumped on it.

 

Didnt realize there were two types. Good to know.

 

Don't know why exactly but Honda specifically says the newer spring-style LMAs are NOT for use in the B18C5.

I know there was a difference in the old style Type-R and non R. I think the tip was fatter to allow a greater stroke of the center rocker due to the bigger cam lobe.

 

Was under the impression that you can no longer buy the older version and the spring style has superseded and replaced it as a replacement part...?

 

X2 ^^
I always thought all gsr/b16/itr heads from 1999 & up got the spring type.. and older was the piston type.

 

Nope. All ITR's still call for the 14820-P73-J01 old-style Type-R specific LMA.

http://www.acurapartswarehouse.com/o...0-P73-J01.html

Only the Del Sol VTEC, 94-01 Integra GSR, and some NSXs get the new spring-style LMA with the built-in shim top & bottom 14820-PCB-305.

http://www.hondapartsnow.com/genuine...0-PCB-305.html

http://www.acurapartswarehouse.com/o...0-PCB-305.html

 

Sounds like the valves got tight after the engine got to op temp and the valve adjustment was not done right, i doubt the LMAs are even bad, Like mentioned check the valve lash your self its easy and you dont need much tools. Im willing to bet the valves are tight and causing the chatter!

 

I have a set of used low mileage JDM GSR LMA pm me.

 

...Plus, the dampening force is greater on the Type R LMA as compare to GSR or B16.

 

That is weird as I was sold the new type by Honda. Possibly B18C5 and B18CR are different? Seems unlikely. Will check part numbers when they turn up.

Thanks, but I'm in New Zealand so not worth.

 

I just installed the newer OEM Spring type LMA's in my R head.
Doesn't sound like a diesel now
Engine is smooth.

 

So does this mean all B-series VTEC engines with bigger aftermarket cams have to use the old style LMAs?

 

I'm using a b18c5 ITR crate head it uses the older LMAs of course but for one thing there different than the other b series vtec LMAs b16 has a more tapered tip were as the ITR uses a wider tip. I'm using Skunk 2 tuner 2 cams and there not huge but they do have a higher duration than the oem itr 01 cams it came with and it runs fine with the older style lmss and there actually very quite at idle which I love. I think using older as in with many miles LMAs with aftermarket cams or any in general will eventually go bad overtime needing replacment but if there's a upgraded style why not use them.

 

The "J" in 14820-P73-J01 means it's a Japan market part number. Both the B18C-R in Japan and B18C5 in the USA call for the 14820-P73-J01. 14820-P73-J01 is a replacement part number for the original 14820-P73-J00. Both are cylinder-style LMAs.

My guess is that the Cylinder style LMAs may cope with high rpm better. The cylinder itself will provide some damping from friction and pumping (of oil). Also they should have a more stable tip-position since they are unable oscillate/walk side to side like the un-damped spring style LMAs could.

My point is there is definitely "some" reason Honda still recommends the P73's. The parts counter guy may simply know about the cheaper B16 alternative and offered you the cheaper option.

 

What about the Skunk 2 LMA springs which are 3% stiffer than ITR, or so they claim.

 

^Go oem or s2.