Hey HT. I'm planning on purchasing a set of coilovers for my em1 this Saturday. I'm very interested in Progress CS2's. My buddy has a built ej hatch that he autocrosses regularly and he recommended these to me. He said he runs 350/550 spring rate. Now my question is, and I'm pretty set on these coilovers in particular, what spring rate should I get? I'm assuming my friend's spring rate is in order of front to rear. I also spoke with a local friend who knows quite a bit about suspension set ups and claimed that if I want an aggressive handling set up, I should never go with equal rates front and rear. He suggested that they differ by at least 100, with the rear being higher. I've done a bit of research and it seems a lot of things I read contradicts what he says. A lot of people seem to run a lower rate in the rear. Now, I know that there isn't very much weight in the rear, and I sure don't want my rear end to be up super high, and there was someone on here talking about experiencing rattling on the rear springs. My car for the most point is going to be a daily driver. I do plan on tracking it a little bit this year, but mostly daily driving. I prefer function over form, but I am still looking for a little bit of a drop. I am currently on stock wheels and tires, 195/55 15, but I will be purchasing 15x7 rota grids with +20 offset on 195/50 15's. Could someone point me in the right direction as far as spring rates? Also any pictures of your cars that have CS2's would be helpful. I plan on calling Progress and speaking to an associate this afternoon. Any input is appreciated. Thanks,

Nick

 

A higher rear spring rate takes a big toll on comfort.

Soft rear rates will ride well, but the car will be more hesitant to rotate.

A lot of people use high rear rates to get the car to rotate for track use.

Its all about which end of the compromise you'd like to be on.

There are, obviously, smart ways to set the car up so that it rotates, but does not beat you up too badly. But these take money, seat time, trial and error, and a lot of explanation. They also come with compromises.

My *personal* example:

I did 360F/380R koni/gc on my ITR. The car wasn't a DD. But I did enjoy street driving it. I also tracked it. The ride was acceptable...but not good/great. If I was truly DD'ing it, I would have been annoyed. The front camber was set at -3.2, the front tires were 225/45/15 (rears were 205/50/15), and the rear sway bar was upsized to the JDM 23mm. The car rotated well. Rode OK. The tire wear wasn't a huge factor to me because YOLO....and they actually wore more evenly than having stock camber since I used them at the track.

If I was DD'ing it...I would use rates like 360F/250R for the street and just swap to 400 or 440ish rears on track days. The rest of the setup is whatever works for you and your situation.

 

Thanks I appreciate the response. Again I do plan on tracking the car a bit this summer. I want decent ride comfort but I think my stock struts are blown it need replaced because my ride is garbage right now. I would be willing to compromise ride comfort at the cost of good performance. What would be benefits/drawbacks to having equal front and rear? Providing my friend who tracks his hatch recommended against it.

 

An EM1 probably needs quite a bit of rate stagger to rotate....from my experience with EM1's.

Again...spring rates are just a piece to the puzzle. I'm assuming you're buying a progress kit that has the shocks base-valved to the springs. But Is the valving externally adjustable (can you turn a **** to change the settings within a range)?

Spring rates are very based on personal choice....so its hard to make a recommendation. Have you driven your friend's car? Does it suck for you, or is it acceptable?

As I mentioned...*for me*, high rear rates on civics and integras are a little annoying. Obviously, this has a lot to do with the dampers and other things. However.... I do like a rear biased rate stagger for track use. It definitely makes the car faster for me.

There's plenty of tricks you can do to make the car rotate a bit or go faster without staggering the rates too much. A LSD, rear bar, alignment, tire stagger, driving style, etc.

 

Unfortunately earlier this season, an s14 240 clipped him while coming around a corner on a road racing course and he spun and slid backwards into a wall and bent his frame. Hes currently in the process of transferring all the parts into a new hatch. So short, no I haven't driven it. That's what sucks, I have no frame of reference. And yes, the shocks are definitely externally adjustable. So what to you was annoying about the ride comfort? In just trying to get a frame of reference. I want to have an aggressive (at least more aggresive than stock) turn in and handling overall. And as mentioned I'm willing to compromise ride comfort. Just since I daily it I don't want it riding like a brick.

 

High rear rates just add too much harshness over bumps for me. The rear will seem to slam over stuff, and the dampers will have a hard time with it.

Of course, if the dampers are matched to the spring rates, it may mitigate some of it. I haven't tried out any progress kits yet. So I can't comment on how their damping felt for me.

The shocks are valved for the springs, correct? Its not like Koni yellows that just have a very wide range of adjustment to accomdate multiple spring rates?

 

I'm not sure if the shocks are valved or not. This is the link I went to and I read the whole page:

https://progressauto.com/products/sf.../productID/779

If you visit the page you can see that they recommend 450 front for b&k setups. That seems relatively stiff. Also, they said squaring it (450/450) isn't meant for true daily drivers but it's still a little forgiving. I would like to have good performance, and as you mentioned an em1 takes a little more to rotate, so I have no clue what to do. The whole spring rates thing has always been confusing for me. And with no reference it's difficult to gauge what I like. I want to go with what Progress reccomends on the page but it seems relatively stiff.

 

I would agree that 450/450 is a bit much for a DD. On a typical civic/integra setup, the front spring doesn't have a huge impact on ride by itself. The rear rates do.

The rear of the car is fairly light...and the stock spring rates are like 100LB/IN for EM1's. So yeah...a spring that is 4.5X stiffer is probably going to throw you around. Dampers with heavy rebound rates can control the annoying flying-upward movement. But it won't keep the car from slamming over cracks in the pavement.

Some coilovers use a heavy rear spring...but an even heavier front spring. That takes away some of the see-saw motion because you're using the front to push down on the back a little bit. But...then both ends of the car are banging along every crack.

Rear-staggered (heavier springs in back as compared to front) rates are almost always uncomfortable AF.

Agressive square setups are a little less annoying...but they're still not really DD friendly.

In my experience, 360F/380R was bareable. But that was an ITR chassis...which is noticeably better than an EM1/Integra/Civic chassis.

Start somewhere like that and move from there. Soften or stiffen the rates and damping as you go.

 

Okay thank you. I think I might go 350f/350r and go from there. Is there a way to adjust rebound stiffness and damping or is that all in the spring/shock?

 

If the dampers are adjustable like you said, then they will adjust mostly rebound...and maybe some compression force, depending on their valve design.

When you turn the **** stiffer, it makes the shocks more resistant to UPWARD movement of the spring. Thats the majority of your adjustment on almost any shock. Rebound is when the spring is EXPANDING.

Compression damping adjustment is how much resistance to bumps the shock has. This adjustment either doesn't exist (it is a fixed amount of force from the factory)...or is adjusted to a smaller degree on most shocks. This is the resistance to COMPRESSING the shock.

If you had the shock out of the car and you were to push down on it...you are compressing it. If you were to pull the shaft up and extend the shock, you are rebounding it.

 

And when the **** is turned it also adjusts ride height, correct? The website says the maximum drop is around 1.3 inches. I wouldn't go more than that any way. Roads where I live are...questionable. I'll leave it at that haha.

 

No...the **** only controls damping force (how hard or soft the shocks are). Ride height is adjusted by physically moving the springs up or down by threading the lower perch.

Shocks don't control height. Springs do.

 

I understand. I misread what you said.

 

@Another SI Guy, there is no damper adjust ability to these shocks. They are static. Of course, you turn the lower collar to set ride height, that's what a coil-over is all about. I have this exact same set on my 93 hatch. I went with 350/250 as advertised for a DD. It's fine, almost no bounce and only a little stiff over road irregularities. Still running stock engine but when I do my swap I plan to get 450 for the front and move the 350 to the rear. I'm very happy with Progress and will continue to recommend them.

 

Gotcha. I appreciate the reply. I'm glad you're happy with them.

 

Aren't Bilstein B8's and GC's like $800? Or...Koni/GC if you really want to have damper adjustability.

Either of those will probably give you more flexibility of what springs you can use.

Idk how much the progress cost or how they perform, though.

 

I'm not really super knowledgeable in regards to suspension setups. As far as the progress goes, I've heard great reviews about them for the price. Good for function, and in fact the only negative things I've heard were due to operator error. And they're closer to my price range, about $600. I'm on a bit of a budget, I'm only 18 working minimum wage so I try to get what I can little by little. And the new wheels and tire combo are gonna cost around $900 and I have some rust repairing that needs done that I'm putting close to $700 into. So my budget is pretty tight atm lol.

 

Konis / GC are the way to go for $800. I had 400f/450r in my EJ8 and it did good around the track. Still a little soft to be really competitive but it worked nicely. As a DD, it was definitely at the upper limit of what I would want to deal with. And thats being able to soften the shocks up.

 

Koni/GC 400/440 is the combination I have for my ITR. The car and new springs are sitting in the garage (since November). I'm hoping 400/440 is bearable. The car isn't a DD. I wouldn't have done more than maybe 300 on Konis in the back for a DD.

I had 440/513, and it was bad enough that I was contemplating selling the car lol.

 

I am currently running the Eibach Sportline kit (shocks & springs) but have always been interested in the Progress coilovers. I would love to see what their 450/350s feel like. The Sportline springs are 350/250 and that might be my limit for daily-driving on Kansas roads.

 

The problem with sportlines is that they're so low and soft that you're just feeling the spring rate of your bumpstop slamming into the shock tower. Anything beyond a 1.38" drop is beyond what (front) stock length shocks were designed to do on 92-00 civics or 94-01 integras.

Sportlines are "show" springs at best. I disliked mine on my EM1. The pro kit is a lot better for driving.

 

Thank you for the insight

 

I appreciate all the input from everyone. I'm thinking I'll probably go with 350f/350r for a slightly more aggressive, but still daily driveable situation.

 

I have this exact setup 350/350 progress cs2, it's in a EK Hatch and I love it on the highway and smooth roads. Side roads are rough. If It was my only car and DD everyday I would opt for the 350/250 because of the side roads but if u can stand the harshness on the side roads go with the 350/350 very responsive setup.

 

Is it really that uncomfortable on bad roads?