So, I've searched the forums some and I'm still lacking a clear answer to what I want. If someone can either help answer my questions or direct me to a thread that I may have missed, that would be very helpful.

I have a 1997 Del Sol w/a B16A2 and manual trans. All it has right now is a catback skunk2 "megapower" exhaust and coilovers. Engine is 100% stock down to the intake. I have a good bit that I want to do to optimize the car for track days, but I'm getting a little lost as far as engine mods.

My goal as far as power would be 200WHP all motor. I have my eyes on some Skunk2 pro1 cams w/supporting mods, Skunk2 intake manifold & throttle body, CAI, Header, 3" custom exhaust w/hi-flow cat, etc. I'm looking at about $2,000 for performance mods and tune. Should I be good for 50+WHP with these mods on this engine? Or would it be more worth it to swap the engine? Maybe an H22A if I can find the right deal. I think I could have one paid for and installed for around $2500.

My ultimate goal is not a straight-line rocket for drag racing, but a fun, track car that is a good DD as well. Until I can afford another DD, it needs to be driveable and comfortable (meaning AC and power steering need to stay).

Any help is much appreciated!

 

If you want 200whp out of a B16 you are going to need FAR more than $2,000. Unless you put nitrous on it.

If you are looking for auto-x/circuit track performance you want something w/ a decent mid-range coming out of corners and something that will also rev a little bit. A 2k budget is going to make it a little tricky though. I would put most of my focus on suspension and weight reduction.

An H2B swap might be a good combo to look into as well.

 

I would second the H2B setup for your power goals but idk if I've actually seen one with air con and everything else or not. A bolt on b16 will be a good happy reving engine but is gonna have little tq and the least return on investment for na HP/dollar spent unless you're in competitive displacement limited class. I would think that a swap to a GSR B18C with done bolt ons would be the best pick to get the close to the power goal and keep ac and ps. On the cheaper side doing a poor man's type R would likely be the perfect choice for power per dollar unless you can do the h2b and keep the ps and AC.

 

Thanks for the answers. I was figuring that I might hear just that. I know that I can find an H22A for $1500 for just the engine with free shipping. And $675 for the H2B kit + $1000-$1500 install at a local race shop. Safe to assume $3500 as a base line number(?). I know the H22A is rated at 217, so assuming 15% drivetrain loss, that means approx. 185WHP bone stock. That puts me pretty close, and I could easily do a few things myself before install. I just would need to look into AC/PS.

So, with a stock B16A2, 160HP at the crank = about 136 or so at the wheels. With the mods I listed, I am probably looking at:

15-20HP Skunk2 Pro1 Cams
~15HP intake, full exhaust
~10HP intake manifold & TB
Total ~ 40-45WHP??

End result 175-180WHP? Does this sound about right with those mods on a B16A or am I being entirely too optimistic? If these numbers are a safe guesstimate, I may start with these mods and post dyno #s after. If it's most likely going to be less, I would probably vouch for a swap. Or I may look into more serious cams with headwork (or a new head altogether)

Thanks again for the help.

 

I forgot to mention, 93egSLEEPER, I am looking at Progress Coilovers, 350lb in front, 450lb in rear. Also, DC front & rear strut tower braces and rear godspeed sway bar & subframe brace.

As far as weight reduction, I will probably go to carbon fiber trunk lid and hood, li-ion battery (need to research more ). But I don't want to get too intensive with it as much more than those and I start to lose my DD comfort. Besides, this stuff will come later as I'm looking at another $1500 or so and it's just not in the budget.

 

Don't forget the B20Z. Cheap and with a set of Crower 403's you will be very happy with daily duties, track and autox.

 

I assume you plan on using a stock block?
A stock block B16 w/ cams and bolt-ons will typically not make much over 170-175whp on a good day, at least from what I have seen. Most H2B's can be tuned w/ stock cams, a good header and intake and make around 200whp and 160+ tq.

The progress CSII suspension is a solid setup.
For chassis bracing I personally would look into the ASR kit (subframe and 24mm swaybar) I have run it on multiple cars and its hands down makes the most dramatic improvement in handling of any mod (aside from coil overs) With that said, I am considering pulling mine off my car since it rarely ever sees a corner at high speeds. Look into it and let me know if you're interested.

 

Yes, it would be on a stock block. 170-175WHP would not be bad, but if that's the upper range of what's achievable, it's not leading me to want to do much work to the engine. I do have to say, I really like the feel of the B16A2 and it's enough power to get around as is, but from what you're telling me (and what I've seen most places) it's not worth dropping much money into. If 200WHP is easy with an H2B set-up, that seems like the most logical route to go. Part of me hates to take out that stock B16 only because it's so hard to find a stock DOHC Del Sol in good condition. It's just that 200WHP in this car would satisfy that itch I get when I'm getting on it, and would be prime for AutoX.

It looks like that ASR kit is about $380 or so. If you do decide to sell yours, I would be very interested. As long as the price is right Definitely HMU if you decide to sell and I'll jump on it.

I'm going to keep on digging and make a final decision relatively soon. I'd like to find some dyno numbers from different set-ups as well as estimates from the local shop I would use for a swap. They quoted my boss $1000 to swap a sr20ve into his '92 Sentra. I hope it'll be somewhere around that number.

I'll make sure to post when I make a decision. In the meantime, any other comments are appreciated from anyone who can chime in on this.

 

read your heart out
https://honda-tech.com/all-motor-nat...hread-1583606/

 

i went from b16 to b20z in my em1 and its beyond night and day. while i do miss the revving of a vtec motor, the b20 is a billion times nicer to drive around town. combined with a gsr or b16 trans and it doesnt have issues getting out of its own way. most b20z's with proper bolt ons and a tune will put down in the 140's for hp and tq. with some 403's i could easily see a dyno of 16x/135, which is near stock c5 hp but at a much lower rpm.


the cs2's are good. im a fan and have them myself.

 

I say H2B all the way for your budget and goals!

 

How many miles can they last @160hp+/135tq though? Just curious. Also it's good you mentioned the B20z has not so high revs (great for city driving) OP you'll want to take that into consideration, do you want a higher revving motor like the H22 or a lower rpm torque/hp motor.

 

it will last a while if properly tuned. mine on stock cams makes 148/145 and ive got about 25k miles on it daily driven. i dont think another 10-15hp will ruin it. the cams will lower the dynamic comp which is good for the motors longevity(lower peak cyl pressure but more rpm to make the power tradeoff) . besides that keep the timing reasonable under 3000 rpm at any load and at wot. i have taken numerous nonvtecs to a rev limit of 7400-7500 but with the increased piston weight of the 84 compared to 81mm bore something around 7000 will suffice. with the arp rod bolt replacements which are like 50 bucks plus another 50 or so to hone the rod ends to ensure roundness you can rev that motor has high as the valvetrain will allow, probably past where it will make power.

that said, while its probably a cheaper option if the op really wants some rpm to play with of ripping through gears, h2b is a good deal as well

 

Cool! Thanks for that background info!

 

when it comes to building the b16 i would be changing pistons first off to some nippion p30s 0 the pistons to the block, shave head .030 then id go pro 2 cams , supertech valve springs oem retainers , victor x intake 74mm blox tb and a 1320 v2 with mega phone a 7lbs flywheel and call it a day honestly wont be 200whp more like 190ish but it will love reving

 

It's 2016, forget the H2b swap. The myths surrounding the H series trannys have long been busted. Just make sure you get one with LSD though

 

Don't do this. 1.6L, sub 12:1 compression, Pro 2's and a victor x is a fail all around.

B series trans for the gearing

 

My B20z with Crower 403's (and valvetrain) and ARP bolts makes 178/150. I rev to about 7500, but it stops making power around 7000 (due to the stock LS intake). Coupled with a ITR tranny it is a blast to drive, very useable power everywhere. Like others have said, it's doesn't have the smooth rev'ing of a B16 but way more torque which shines on the street and at autox. Just saying... it's cheaper because you don't need the H2B stuff.

 

If you want to keep AC and Power steering, I think a built up b20 block is the way to go. You already have all the necessary mounts. Truly a bolt in affair. AC and PS bolt up just like it does to the b16.
I THINK some custom fabbing is required to keep those with the H22 swap...

But like others have said, night and day going from a 1.6 to a 2 liter. More torque everywhere in the rpms makes for a wonderful daily driver and a track car. You wont be disappointed.
I'd take a cammed non vtec B20 anyday over a cammed B16.

 

and those cable shifters are booty yo solid ftw

 

Oh hush cables are fine

And the gearing on H LSD trannys are comparable to B series, just may need a different final drive depending on your setup and goals.

Yes, you will have to do a tiny bit of fab to get PS to work and a bit more fabbing for AC in the H swap. I like Pyro's idea of a B20

 

I'm a few days late but just saw the thread. I've gone through almost all of the setups mentioned above in a daily driven Integra. First B20z with LS intake, DIY icebox w/ K&N filter, DC header, and S80 Trans street tuned on Crome. Then thinking that the high revving VTEC power would be "better" and more fun, I found a good deal on a ~12.3:1 B16a with CTR head/cams, Skunk2 Pro intake, RMF Narrow header (rep), Apexi catback, AEM V2 intake, dyno tuned on Hondata. After a ton of time and money, I ended up gaining a couple mph in my 1/4 Mile but staying around the same overall ETs and although I will admit the rev happy B16 was a lot of fun, it wasn't as well suited to daily driving as the B20 and its relatively flat torque curve. The B16, even with all that work and it's 178 whp only made 119 wtq and you could really feel that. The car being slightly "heavy" for a Honda, similar weight to your Del Sol, really didn't move anywhere under 5500-6k RPM. Now I have a stout and healthy B18C in my DC2 which is the best of both worlds, and my Track cAr has K24 power, but neither of those builds was cheap or by any
Means in a $2000 budget. For your current case I would concur with the suggestions of B20z with Crower cams and supporting bolt ons. Get that thing properly tuned and you will enjoy it on the street and autoX course. B16s have their place in 1600cc limited competition because for that size they are amazing, and they can be great boosted also, but
For an all motor car with no displacement restrictions and on a tight budget there are more efficient engines than the B16 to meet your goals.