I posted this in another section before seeing this one.

I needed to replace my trailing arm bushings. I bought toe "plates", camber/caster gauge....and set up strings, all in an effort to know how the settings were, before taking it apart.

My conclusions were that as it was, the passenger side was virtually dead straight (however that side's bushing was half broken), and the driver's side was toed in, nearly 1/16th inch.

The car has handled very well as it was, and very stable at high speeds.
It appears from what others have said, this table indicates I should set the car at a maximum of 2mm toed-in, or less.

It that correct?




This page is from my original '90 Integra Service Manual, but I don't really know what it means.

I expect, a little toe-in in the rear helps stabilize the straight line stability.

Opinions, info please! Anybody that can explain the spec above?



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The spec is 2 mm of toe in.

When checking it, the maximum admissible is 3 mm (2+1), minimum is 0 (2-2). When setting it it should be set to 2 mm.

Unless otherwise stated in the manual I'd say this is a total value, i.e. 1 mm per wheel (1+1=2).

 

Great! Now I get it....seems like a poor way of expressing it in a manual, unless you already know how the formula is written.

Thanks!


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um, thats absolute standard way of reading and expressing tolerances, for the technically minded.

its a technical book, for a technician.

 

"technically minded"? I've been using automotive and motorcycle manuals since 15 years old. I don't let any mechanics touch my vehicles. I've done, on one vehicle or another, nearly everything....except an alignment. I've used mechanical and electrical specs in my career for 40 years.

I didn't have a clue what that spec meant, and I've never seen a definition of it.


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i wouldnt be proud of that if i couldnt read a simple bilateral tolerance.

 

Get over it. If you've never done an alignment before, tell me where you'll see a spec written like that. My air-cooled VWs never need this kind of suspension work (just tie-rods ends, count the turns). They had no bushings.

My Norton Interstate had big bushings around the engine. They only went in one-way. The engine mounts in my sailboat had bushings, at 40 years old, they never went bad, even in saltwater. I did have to replace the prop shaft and cutlass. How do you 'spose I aligned that? The cutlass has to be cut out of the fiberglass to be replaced.

My Ranger, at 18 years old, needs nothing. My 24 year only F350 Dually never needed suspension work either.



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you know, maybe just be humble and say oh, i learned something new.

its standard dimensional ASME tolerance. look it up.

 

I thanked the guy that explained it. Not the smartace that contributes nothing for no reason, but complains.


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you done?

 

Not really. You came off with no contribution to the question, but thinking everybody should know that spec, as written.

I can calculate the electrical load to a 50 unit apartment complex and tell the power company what size transformers to install. I's simple math. I can tell you how fast a propeller tip is going from the diameter and the rpms, because it's simple math. I can tell you the required resistor or diode for an electronic circuit, because it's simple math. Real math. Try designing the ribs in an airplane wing sometime. It's math.

That spec is not a mathematical statement. The only person that would know what it means is someone that's familiar with alignments.

Just because you're familiar with it, doesn't mean anybody else is.


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just because you didnt know it, doesnt mean its not a common standard.

what else you got?

 

It's only standard to people that have experience with alignments.

Really, it's a short cut written by a technical writer. Engineers use real math.

I made a whole website translating many technical procedures (with photos) for the Sohc Honda 750-4s from '69 to '76, specifically because 1000s of people couldn't make sense of the poorly written manuals, written by Honda, Clymer and Haynes.

The 1st 5-6 years I was getting 100k hits per month. I covered a lot of small details the tech writers either didn't mention, or defined poorly.

Spec, toe-in 2mm total. Max 3, min. 0. That makes sense unless you don't want owners to work on their cars, because it's not profitable.


Is that all I've got? You haven't addressed my point at all. Electrical loads are standard too. Do you know the spec?



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Come on guys, can't we just get along? No need to bash on someone for not knowing something. He asked, he learned. That's the right attitude. Next time he can help someone else learn as well.

Unnecessary bickering puts me and many others off forums...

 

bilateral tolerance is defined in ASME Y14.5 GD&T and has been used for decades by engineers and commonly understood, but not by you.

get along? this is just entertaining to me. i like hearing some guy get riled up because he has to prove how technical he is.

apparently he thinks 2-2=0 is a "formula".

lol.

 

See, that's exactly right. Many people are here because they're tying to work on, and make progress on their cars.

You on the other hand, are making the task more difficult and contribute nothing.

I attempt to search for topics, and find pages and pages of guys like you that make it nearly impossible to find actual data on this forum. You fill it up with your non-sense...."entertainment", and ruin it for the guys that are trying to get something accomplished.

You still have not addressed anything, but your own miniature head space. There not much there.

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youre the gift that keeps giving...

the question was answered.

i added information.

you took offense and started proving something.

and you keep going and going and going.

yes, at this point its all just entertaining.

 

See, this is a contribution. Thanks!


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"um, thats absolute standard way of reading and expressing tolerances, for the technically minded."

That's offensive, you added nothing but an insult. You think that way.

I'll wait a week and still add more. It's not entertainment to me. It's a quest.

You can have fun, with nothing.
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why so defensive?

 

I mean no offense but the verbiage used is normal for a service manual. If something in your electrical manual said 120 volts +/-5 volts wouldn't you agree it means 115-125v would be considered within spec?

 

If you bought toe plates used for racing then just set the toe straight up and you'll be fine. Racing toe plates are good for setting toe within 1/8" accuracy, but anything closer than that is unrealistic. Your readings can change by a 1/16" inch as easily as how much pressure you apply to the plate when you hold it up to the wheel

 

Written spec can very per author, even if considered standard. When written as your example, numbers are expressed horizontally. Numbers in a vertical format, usually indicate in some part, a mathematical formula.


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I've seen many "tape" measures of the same brand, where the marks don't match....but there are ways to adjust for that, by comparing different methods. It I take the front tires out of toe, one side at a time, the strings will help. It takes time and effort, but I'll get close enough to drive the 400 miles to get a read out.


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i've verified my longacre toe plate measurement against a hunter rack to 1/32" or less.

ymmv