So recently my wheel flew off on the highway because the alignment guys didnt tighten my lugs to spec and ive had to replace all the suspension pieces myself.
My question was what could happen if i left the snap ring off of the lower ball joint. Is it possible to de-press itself and and fall out? i ask this because im short on cash after replacing everything and the snap ring pliers i have dont expand wide enough for me to put the snap ring into place... Do any of you have exp. installing snap rings onto ball joints? it just seems very difficult with the snap ring pliers i have.

 

Very cheap harbor freight snap ring pliers worked for me:



If I recall correctly I don't remember my original ball joints having the snap ring. Doesn't mean I'd recommend rolling without the new ones though.

 

I've been able to install them without using the pliers, you can install them just by using a flathead screwdriver, it takes abit of patience though.

 

I'm using the harbor freight ones but the middle piece o them is missing so they make like a Wierd coil shape. I'll just buy new ones and let you know how this side goes. But what I meant is the side I had already worked on is all assembled and the snap ring doesn't expand wide enough to climb up around the steering knuckle onto it's seat on the ball joint. A lot of work ahead of me

 

you dont need the snap ring.

its not possible to go anywhere when bolted.

 

I don't agree. You need it. The original one is pressed in and very tight. The aftermarket one can be tapped in with a small hammer. The clip keeps it from moving, if it moves it can rub against the axle.

You can get it on with pliers if you try hard enough. I had the same issue, my snap ring pliers did not expand large enough.

 

In what scenario would the ball joint be able to travel upwards out of the knuckle?

 

Sway bar pushing up when other side is depressed.

 

They don't pop out. Imagine whatever scenario you want.

Clearly you've not bought a new OEM one. Theres not even a snap ring groove.

Op do whatever you feel comfortable.

 

Be safe and just put it in. I would agree an OEM one doesn't need it since the tolerances are going to be exact.

Aftermarket parts should be installed they way the manufacturer designed them to be installed, not how OEM was installed. The aftermarket company clearly engineered them with a snap ring for a specific reason, so I would just do it.

Lets say the aftermarket company casted the part where as oem was machined. (Or their machine wasn't as accurate) That casted part might have a different deviation in their exact diameter. This could cause issues with how the bj sits, or they calculated the wear of the knuckle and know their is a possibility of it expanding over 25 years.

Some engineer somewhere said it would be a really good idea to include a snap ring in the package. That decision was discussed and evaluated by the entire product team. That snap ring part and nook cuts a percentage into their profit. They would not include it unless they were absolutely sure it was needed. Manufacturers of products have specific teams that take a blue print of a part, and evaluate it to see if they can reduce the cost of making it. An additional part would be a red flag in the process.

What I know is that I have installed tons of BJs in several different types of cars over the years. The last BJ I did on a CRX, seriously took zero effort on pressing the BJ in. I took the smallest hammer I had and tapped it in. All other cars, you have to reverse the BJ press, and press the BJ in. Then sometimes you have also use a snap ring.

 

^probably brought up the best points possible.

 

In my real job, I play devils advocate a lot.

 

I guess my bottom line is, that we can speculate all we want on why it is redesigned that way. I just highly doubt it was for an irrelevant reason.

 

so basically you have no idea.

your previous imagined scenario ignores the shock/spring and weight of the knuckle btw.

it simply has no where to go.

install it whatever way you feel. if the OD is so undersized that its no longer a press fit, then dont be a dummy and use it.

its supposed to be an interference fit.

 

I have plenty of ideas, just never did or review the analysis myself. Neither did you. I can speculate all I want, but it doesn't add anything to the conversation.


It was just one of many. Again, yes all is speculation.


It could move in any direction. You're just thinking up down.

That is OEM.

Another point is when I installed mine, I had problems getting the snap ring completely around the BJ at first. It was because the back side was not completely pressed in. That means that it is possible for it to pivot inside without the clip. This could introduce wear if it constantly pivoted there.

Tyson, please explain why this clip ring was included if it isn't required.

 

This is funny -- subscribed.

 

whats your point? you dont know how to install it properly?

its a press fit. always has been, if it isnt then the part is defective. or someone did a horrible job pressing the last one out and in like you did.

there should be no case where it can wobble around. if its wobbling around, then something is wrong.

it makes sense to include a snap ring. it seems like the right thing to do when you press something in and you dont want it pushed out. then someone brighter than you figured out, hey, this is unnecessary. we dont need to machine an extra groove and require the mechanic to do a needless step of inserting the ring. its an unnecessary cost so lets eliminate it.

welcome to the honda way.

 

@Tyson: I am definitely having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say. Can you calm down, edit your response so it is understandable? I am giving the opposite opinion to yours because both should be discussed. This should be a constructive exercise.

When I say the snap ring wouldn't go in, do you think it was an inch out of line or something? It was probably .1mm or less. Wobbling is your interpretation of what I said I guess.

I don't really want to respond to your flame bait, but do you have just reasoning for insulting my intelligence? Are you an engineer? I am; I personally have 2 engineering degrees and a mathematics degree.

Yes, I waiting for you to put your foot down.

 

congrats. would you like a cookie? i dont do online pissing matches. but seems like you feel like you have to share your degrees and experience. i dont care.

it factually does not need it. you cant figure out why, so thats the end of this conversation.

im not going to draw a 9th grade physics free body diagram. or calculate the stress of a 4 tenths oversize press fit in a steel collar. youre the one with the degrees.

and you said "pivot", that means wobble and play to me. and justified some kind of wear condition. which is not the case if done right.

im answering your questions at the level that youve asked me to.

 

No dude that is not what I said.

Can you please try to explain why you think they include a snap ring if it isn't required one more time? I really don't understand what your justification was before.

 

i did.

can you explain why honda changed their design?

 

Throwing the curve ball...

I decided to look up the part number on Majestic's site. Oddly enough the diagram shows a snap ring. After discovering this I looked up pics via google and noticed this:





As you can see they both have the same part# but the first has the snap ring and if you look closely you can make out the groove for it. The second pic is clear to see that here is no groove present for a snap ring to be installed.

Here's a pic of my original without the groove (right):



As far as i know i am the first to replace the ball joints on my car. It's possible it was revised later to include the snap ring.

 

The stock 89-91 civic does not come with a clip there, but 92+ did.

Honda changed their mind for 92+ probably because of some problem. Seems like part manufacturers applied this change to the 88-91 part as well. I can only speculate on the problem as I said before.

Ideas that come time mind are:

1. With the increase of sway bar stiffness there is a need to ensure the joint cannot be vibrated up.
2. There is a possibility that when the ball joint reaches maximum tilt, additional pressure is applied on the pressed joint. The snap ring prevents the pivoting inside the pressed joint
3. The materials heat expansion properties caused issues with coming lose.

 

Those pics are from my 94 civic.

 

***** about to get real...