ok SO i searched threads and didn't see anything to fit my car's exact problems so I'm going to throw this out there.

First off, no codes or lights ever.

Hard start only happens after it's sitting for a bit, at night. It can sit all day at work during the day but at night 4 hours is enough to make it start hard.

I can hear the fuel pump priming and after about 6 of those primes I can smell gas.

The car will turn over like a champ but doesn't start. When it does start it starts on "not all cylendars" (?not sure how many) and then idles rough like that for maybe 30 seconds and then all cylendars come on and it's good to go.

It only has 80k miles on it but didn't think it ever had tune up so I put on rotor, cap, wires and plugs.

When I did that the two middle cylendars had oil in the spark plug wells, so that was disappointing. Since I've changed the plugs I haven't seen accumulation of oil, but I know that's another issue I need to deal with...but getting back to the start issue.

The problem is really only in the morning. Once it starts for the day, it's good to go.

AND if I wait until like noon to start it (on the weekend) it will FIRE RIGHT UP.

Any thoughts?

 

Seems to be temperature(cold) related.
Might want to check the thermoresistor for the ECU is indicating the proper temp, same with the air intake temp sensor. Just needs the engine to warm up a bit and the thermo sensor is then back withing parameters. Might also want to check the FITV, if it is causing a leak when cold then it will not affect the car during normal operating temps or during the day when the sun is keeping the car at ambient.

 

Mike-

THANKS... that's different advice than I've seen so I have hope! lol

Can I ask- is there anything on here that you know of, that say how to check those items?

Or would a chilton manual have it in?

I do ok for a girl, but I have never checked stuff like that out! lol

Thanks!

 

Has the car ever overheated ? Does the car run great ?

 

It's never overheated... and yes it runs awesome! ...just didn't start so hot.. but once it's going the only issue I've had is a rough idle with the a/c on... from what I've read that's kinda normal...and quite frankly my front motor mount is shot, so I thought that might be impacting that

 

Do I need a scanner to check the thermistor?

 

An OBDII scanner, not just a code reader, would be the way to watch the sensors activity when cold.
Plug it is turn the ignition to II(ON) and look at the cold readout of the sensors. Look at all sensors and write down what they are showing, including TPS, MAP. Watch for any unusual readings.

If nothing, look at the ignition components next. Pull the distributor cap off, pull the spark plug wires out, look for condensation that may be causing arcing/ground shorts. Any corrosion, dirt inside the cap/distributor clean off.

Next pull the FITV and check it is fully seated, check the FAQ on how-to.

 

ugh. ok... unless there is a way to test without a obd2 scanner than I might have to try to get it to a garage... I don't think I can warrant spending the money on a scanner right now. I was hoping you were going to tell me of a way with like a multimeter or something. lol

 

Most shops especially the big name ones will pull the codes for free.

 

Sounds like a similar issue I just had with my 99 Accord EX. Just started running rough from a cold start up. Took a minute or so to run well after start up. The exhaust smelled rich and the plugs were showing signs of rich fuel mixture. Never had a check engine light until the very last. I have an Innova scanner which reads live data and discovered the issue. My ECT temp was 396 when cold and the same when hot. When I unplugged the connector from the sensor it read -40. Thermistor was kaput. Replaced the sensor and everything is fine. 31 dollar part at NAPA and 53 at the dealer. I learned the ECT controls multiple things. I even cleaned my throttle body first to rule that out.

 

Tom2rn.... that's very interesting! Thank you! When I changed the plugs two were sitting in oil but the other two that were dry looked like what I'd expect them too, dry..a but grayed but nothing crazy... so I don't think I have a running rich situation..
Do you think without that symptom the thermistor could still be the issue?

 

With a meter you could read the resistance of the thermoresitor, but I do not have those values in front of me.

The nice bit about the scanner is you can see the actual data the PCM is reading.

 

I wonder though if they can see the real time info... ugh but even then I'd have no way to get it there unless I can get the starter on, get it started and then take it up there...

 

For some reason my post didn't take. Here are the values from my Haynes which is for 94 to 97 models. When engine is cold (50 to 80 degrees F) resistance should be 2200 to 2700 ohms between the two terminals. As the car increases in temperature the resistance should decrease. When it hits about 180 F (normal operationg temp) the resistance should be 280 to 350. The voltage at the connector between its two terminals should be 5 volts with the key on (engine not running). Mine was easier to detect since I had the live data scanner. At 396 degrees cold and -40 with the connector removed it was glaringly obvious for me. As far as I know I don't live in the Arctic or on Mercury. My Innova meter was a good investment for a couple of hundred bucks. My neighbor borrows it all the time when he works on his Corvettes.

 

THIS IS AWESOME INFO... THANK YOu!

But... as I went out to try to diagnose this, I realized I don't really know what the thermistor looks like or where it is. lol I thought it would be in the ecu, but don't want to go digging around without at least some knowledge.. had trouble finding anything online.. will keep looking but if you see this and can point me in the right direction, I'd appreciate it!

after looking a bit I found two threads mentioning a thermistor...

https://honda-tech.com/honda-civic-2...istor-2041582/

and

https://honda-tech.com/honda-accord-.../#post34360272

it seems more logical to me that you are referencing the one in the second thread?

 

The ECT for the computer is the two wire "sensor/switch" on the end of the head under the dist.

 

AWESOME! you guys rock! ... and that's a lot easier than tearing up the floor to get to the computer... ...only I just did while I was waiting for an answer. lol Oh well...

ok, going to check this thing out RIGHT NOW!

 

Here is a pic from another thread. The ECT is in the center, there is a blue arrow to the ECT.......again the pic is thanks to another member, I just used it to help you find the sensor/switch.

 

Anyone have any idea what size deep socket I need... I am running to buy a set now and figured if anyone knows I'll make sure the set has that size

 

Test before replacing

 

Ok...got this sensor out... didn't realize I could have done this with it still in! Oops (was a 19mm)

It's about 82 degrees outside, obviously engine was a bit cooler than that, but till I handled it and got my multimeter it would have warned up to ambient temp I think.

It read 1800ohms.

That sounds low considering... but what do you think?

Now if my new starter was in the car would normally start at this temp... so for fun I put it in the freezer for a bit... after that it read 2600. I mean it seems to be functioning.... but could being shirt a few hundred ohms cause a no start problem?

 

I'm not a mechanic, but I think it is still too low at ambient temp. These things can be picky since they control multiple items and report to the ECU. They also control the cooling fans based on my research. Had to replace one in my 95 for that very reason. Putting it in the freezer was a good idea, but the reading should be between 50 and 80.

 

Boil it until it gets to around 195 and it should be around 180-250 ohms

It will never get below 150

 

Oh! Now that is interesting! Because...every once in a while my auxiliary cooling fan will stay on. I just pull the fuse thing, but wow... maybe this will fix that too! Well starter is in, I'm picking up the new sensor now! Let you know goes!

 

This picture made my life so much easier! lol Thank you Lost Again!

TOM2RN - You deserve a great big kiss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The new sensor (after riding home with the old sensor - in other words, in the same temperature) had ohms that were 200 higher than the old sensor! I put it in and she started right up!!!!!!!

The true test will be tomorrow morning, but considering she's been sitting all week because of this issue, things are looking good!!!!!

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH! I'll post back and let you know how it works on a cold start!