I've been searching for info and dyno comparisons with the 96-97 spec JDM ITR OEM header/exhaust manifold and I'm not having a lot of luck. There's tons of info out there on the 98-spec 4-1 ITR header but not much on the earlier cast 4-2-1.

I just picked one up on the cheap because it has a 2.5" collector to match up to my 2.5" exhaust and it has awesome ground clearance. I currently have a Hytech replica which is bashed in due to it's obvious ground clearance issues. I've been wanting to get it repaired but I keep thinking that it's just a matter of time until it's damaged again.

The only real header dyno comparison thread I found that included the 96-spec JDM ITR header seemed to have ran it un-tuned as a baseline to compare other headers to, which were tuned. Obviously it made about 10 whp less peak but comparing it un-tuned to the others being tuned is comparing apples and oranges.

Does anyone out there have any experiences with these on the dyno? What kind of actual WHP should I expect to lose with this header tuned vs. the Hytech rep? I feel like it's overlooked because it's cast and not as pretty, but it seems to me like it should have some decent potential for at least good mid-range power.

 

I ran with the ITR 4-2-1, ITR 4-1 , and RMF replica all un-tuned and ran faster consistently with the 4-2-1.

 

It's a cast 4-2-1 factory manifold.

It's not very good as far as headers go.

 

Im running toda replica and it was a big difference from the dc 4-2-1 and it has really good ground clearance. You should look into that, and its 2.5 as well.

 

When you say ran faster, do you mean faster quarter times at the track, or felt faster on the street?

I'm looking for a solid factual comparison. This is really the only type of answer I've seen, and it doesn't tell me much. I mean, what does it matter to me if it's cast or stainless or whatever? I suppose heat soak and the smoothness of the runners would play some role, but to me the piping diameters would seem to be the most important factors in making power.

I'm fully expecting that in a head-to-head dyno comparison with other headers it would make less power, but I'm trying to quantify how much less. I can live with losing a few peak WHP for ground clearance and affordability. 10 WHP probably not though.

But I'm not ready to dismiss the idea just based on conjecture and guesswork.

 

Im looking to get highend autosports version2 header

 

It's not really guesswork, it's been proven to perform poorly. How poorly? I think you already know. It falls off hard after 7500-8000 RPMs and the midrange gets beat down hard by any competent header for $300. The reason you don't see many dyno charts is because no one uses it, it's not a good power maker. That's WHY Honda changed the design.

I don't see why you're making a big deal about this, there are plenty of headers that have fantastic ground clearance while still making a good 10-15whp more than the cast manifold.

 

This was posted in another thread showing the direct comparison between the 96 spec and 98 spec headers:

Based on those curves it performs very similarly to the 98 spec ITR header, which is used in a lot of back to back header dyno comparisons and shown to make very competitive power with most mass produced headers.

And I'm not the one making a big deal about this, I just want to see if there are actual dyno plots out there. I don't need to have some random person on the internet regurgitate things they read and haven't actually tested or proven.

Also making claims about how much WHP I could gain with another header and when the powerband is going to fall off are pretty presumptuous considering I haven't given any details about what my build is or what other components I'm running. I'm not looking for armchair guesses like this which is why I didn't mention what my setup is. The only thing I'm looking for is anyone that has dyno plots of the 96 spec header vs whatever else they are running and I can decide for myself based on the plots whether it makes sense to use or not.

 

No it doesn't, it's used as a baseline because there shouldn't be anything worse.

You're really misinformed, and now you're just boring me. Every motor is different, I don't see what a dyno comparison will prove to you.. you already posted a dyno of it losing to a 98 spec header, which gets beat by 15-20hp by many replicas. If you want to use a shitty, subpar cast manifold then by all means... go ahead. I'm trying to tell you that for $300 you can make more power throughout the entire RPM range, and still have great ground clearance.

Your thinly veiled insults and attempts to insinuate I don't know what I'm talking about are cute though. I'm pretty sure I've built more Hondas than most of the people on this site, as well as having personally experienced a ton of different headers on my own builds. I currently have a DC sports 'race' header on my EG and it is a direct replica of the JDM ITR 98 spec header... guess what... It sucks.

Run whatever you want. That's the problem with this new generation... you guys ask a question and when you get an answer you don't like you lash out and call people 'haters' or somehow try to justify your stupid ******* opinion. No, you're just wrong. And ignorant.

 

The ITR is by no means a bad header. It's a baseline header because it's cheap, readily available, and known to make power. The Toda replica made a whopping 4 whp more in MikeySpec's most recent budget comparison, and that mostly above 7k and briefly around crossover, and the ITR kept up just fine with most of the other headers. The fact is, it's not proven easy to make an OTS header that significantly outperforms the Honda original. The other fact is the cast 4-2-1 performs essentially the same as the more common 4-1. For the price it is hands down, no question the best header for the money. Add to that it's never going to break and it has a heat shield so it's good and stealthy for people who live in places like California where aftermarket headers are illegal. Finally, for someone who does not want to buy a ripoff of someone else's hard work it's the only header available for less than $800.

OP if you don't want it I'll take it off your hands.

 

No, it actually loses to the Comptech off the shelf header which is CA legal. It does not perform the same as the 4-1, and it doesn't come close to a $350 toda replica... how is it in ANY way the best value for the money? It is seriously ONE step above a normal cast manifold off a GSR, and I would be willing to bet it doesn't pick up any power over a DC sports.

Mikey's test was also on a STOCK motor, those gains will compound as you make more power. Not to mention, the toda rep didn't just beat it in the high end, it beat it all over the rpm range. And it sits higher than a stock ITR header. The ONLY reason to use the inferior ITR header would be if you have some hangup about buying replicas.

 

Seriously, it's like you have an idea, no matter how bad or blatantly incorrect, and you want someone to dig up some kind of proof that justifies it, it's really sad..

 

The amount of baseless assumptions you've made in this thread is getting ridiculous, I don't even know where to start.

First a knockoff header makes 10-15 whp now, then next time you post it's 15-20. Maybe next time we can add to the hyperbole and say it's 25-30? And again pulling random numbers out of the sky isn't informative in the least. Like you say, every engine is different, so really the only way to directly compare parts is to see back to back dynos with the parts tuned and try to make some determination how that would relate to your build.

This link is a header dyno comparison where we can see that on a fairly stock ITR motor the OEM 4-1 performs within a couple WHP of most of the knockoffs:
http://www.ek9.org/forum/honda-integ...-r-engine.html
This post is based on fact and gives some insight into how each header performs. Your own header you talk about that you say sucks you don't even have numbers to back up. It may not even perform as well as an actual ITR header that it's trying to copy.

And please don't assume I'm some dumb newbie that doesn't have a clue. Just because you joined HT before I did doesn't mean you have some vast OG knowledge about Honda's more than anyone else. You might be able to talk down to the randoms that wander into GDD but just because you say everything like you think you're right doesn't make it factual.

Anyway, all this thread was asking for was dyno comparisons using this header. Why you continue to respond with no dynos is beyond me. Maybe I struck a nerve because I'm questioning your vast knowledge and using proper grammar.

 

That's exactly the opposite, I'm just asking for unbiased dyno comparisons, not a bunch of Google experts that spout out things like they're fact. Once I get dynos I can see and decide for myself what I want to use.

I've also said more than once in this thread that I know it will make less power than whatever header you want to compare it to, I'm just trying to find FACTS that I can use to determine if X-less WHP is something I'm willing to sacrifice.

 

You are seriously so dumb it's starting to hurt me now.

Here ya go retard.


DIRECT comparison of JDM ITR 4-2-1 and 4-1. Yep... just like I said, the 4-2-1 gets **** on through the entire RPM range and falls off hard at 7500 RPMs. Now, you already said the Toda rep makes 4whp more than the JDM 4-1, again all over the rpm range, so tell me why in the **** you're still arguing about this?? You obviously have an agenda and won't be satisfied until someone tells you what you want to hear.

You just won't accept facts. I don't know why I had to dig this up for you... are you too dumb to use google?

Stop being a moron and actually listen to people for once. the JDM cast manifold sucks. There. END OF THREAD.


PS - the reason I don't feel like digging up dynos to show some punk kid, is because we all learned this 10 years ago when you were still in pampers.

 

It's hilarious how rustled you're getting in this thread. The last resort of someone who has nothing to debate is name calling. I also enjoy that you still seem to think I am younger than you.

Anyway, thanks for reposting a graph that was in the link that I just posted and taking it completely out of context. If you bothered to read that thread the green "stock" run was with the JDM 4-2-1 WITHOUT TUNING. You can't compare one header un-tuned to another that was tuned. And of course on the stock ECU/tune the power falls off after 7500/8000. But then I shouldn't have to tell the self-professed Honda expert that.

Also not sure if you are trolling hard or just can't read, but my only agenda is to find a proper dyno comparison. That graph you posted the really the only thing that I've found searching so far, and like I said, it's not that helpful since it's un-tuned. My only agenda is to find a direct comparison like I asked for, not "what does random wannabe internet genius think about this header".

I'd hope that at some point you'd take the hint that you're not really answering my original question, but it seems you're butt hurt here and won't leave this alone.

 

Why don't you use it and do a dyno comparison yourself?

 

Would be great but I don't have my own readily accessible dyno, and the two headers I do have aren't a direct swap. After paying for the dyno time while having to spend however much time swapping headers and modifying my exhaust on the fly to bolt up I'd be out as much as if I bought a name brand header. And if that was in the budget I wouldn't be bothering to research these cheaper alternatives.

 

Thanks for the heads up on MikeySpec's thread, I hadn't found that one yet searching. For anyone else interested here is the link:
https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/budget-header-showdown-replica-headers-vs-skunk2-alpha-1-8l-dyno-test-3005484/

If the JDM 4-2-1 were to perform closely to the JDM 4-1 tested here then I could live with that. The Hytech rep like I currently have is only making about 2.5 WHP more and I'll gladly trade that off for the ground clearance.

The Toda replica is tempting based on the power and ground clearance combination, but what worries me about buying these replicas is how comparable is one to the other? Given that they are all some no-name knockoff with presumably little quality control, the Toda rep tested here may perform differently than another self-proclaimed Toda rep. I'm sure all are close, but if the reasoning behind buying it is for that 4 WHP, then what if you end up with a lower quality rep that only nets say 2 WHP? Then is that worth it?

Good info though for sure.

 

Track, best of 8.80 with 4-2-1 best of 8.88 with 4-1. I had about 70-80 passes on each.

 

this should answer your question just read and look at the pictures

http://wiki.clubcivicquebec.com/inde...Integra_Type_R

 

I am kinda thinking the same.

The guy is just asking if he missed any information that he had already searched for.

2L - you in a pissy mood or something?

 

I'll cut you

 

I surrender.

 

so after reading this again. I confuse. what exactly does OP want?