I always send my injectors off to get serviced anytime I am doing an engine rebuild. I have had my Mustang 60# injectors and lightning 42# injectors serviced in the past and they were within 4% of each other in dynamic testing (pulsing), and within 1% of each other static (wide open).

I really expected my ID 1000's to be very close. They came back within 8% dynamic and 2% static. I now know to keep my tune on the rich side to compensate for this 8% difference in flowrate. I viewed the flow data on Cruzinperformance.com and it appears I have a strong injector a slightly weak injector and two that are neck and neck so I am really not worried about it but glad I know.

Some companies sell injectors in flow matched sets. Well worth the extra $ if you ask me.

 

I would contact ID and see what they think. Given, the level of HP you like to play at I would definitely like to hear their opinion. BTW, I own a set of 1000's, also.

 

Ok so I talked to the guy that flowed the injectors he says the dynamic testing was done @25% duty cycle. The greater the duty cycle the closer they should get which is a good thing. He says my results were common for modified Bosch injectors like Injector Dynamics are.

Is there a cylinder that traditionally runs leaner than the rest using a type R intake? I figured I would put the strongest injector on that cylinder.

 

Even dynamic testing @25% duty cycle is a lot. Unless you are using you car for racing purposes the dynamic testing should be done around 10% since you will normally cruise between 3 to 10% injector duty cycle.

The injectors should be dynamically tested where they spend most of their duty since at high duty cycle, injectors tend to flow more on the even side of thing. Unfortunately most people do not know about it...

 

This is a race car that will run on 109 unleaded race gas.

 

If they are closer to even at 100% then not as big of a deal.

Not sure about lean but cylinder 3 is frequently hot and the one to blow so I would put the rich injector on #3.

 

I've never understood why 3 runs hotter... sure 2 combustion events happen in cylinders next to it but the same thing is true for cylinder 2. it has to come down to 3 receiving less air then the other cylinders, causing a lean air fuel charge and elevated combustion chamber temps and elevated EGTs

 

Wouldn't it also factor in that cylinder 3 is (slightly) further from the water pump than cylinder 2 so the coolant would carry a little bit more heat.

And then there's also the chance that it can run a leaner air/fuel ratio because of the inertia of the air/fuel charge through most intake manifold it's a sharper radius to get into cylinder 3 vs. cylinder 2. You would think this would also affect cylinder 4 but I'm no expert lol I'm just throwing ideas out there :D

 

Sorry, you got it wrong here. If cyl 3 is receiving less air it would then run richer not leaner as you said.

 

Derp, don't make semi intelligent posts when tired lol.

depending on overall fueling, timing, cylinder trims, etc. it could go either way, mostly rich but a little lean here and there. however running overly rich is just as bad as running too lean. you can run so rich that EGTs become elevated, the obvious incomplete burn of the fuel/air charge in the cylinder, potential cylinder wall washing, a chance of detonation, etc.

In regards to the coolant thing it's unlikely, at least around he sleeves. the pump moves such a large volume of water that it wouldn't really have time to heat up THAT much as it passes by different cylinders.

you also have to remember that since the sleeves are ductile iron they don't transfer a lot of heat into the coolant. since the head is aluminum and hot exhaust gasses flow through the head it absorbs the bulk of the heat from the combustion process and thus puts more heat into the coolant.

the biggest issue with high power Hondas is the direction in which the coolant flows. for the typical street Honda the OEM way of block then head is adequate. when you get into high horsepower circuit/time attack, autox, and drag cars that's when the issues start.

the head can get so hot unde these high loads that it can't transfer heat into the coolant fast enough, in addition the coolant has already been slightly elevated in temperature from passing around the sleeves... water, ethylene glocol, and water wetter (or any other traditional cooling fluids) have a finite amount of heat that they can absorb for a given volume and period of time.

if this limit is reached before the coolant can absorb the bulk of the heat from the head then you have issues. The heat buildup in the head starts finding other paths. elevating the intake manifold temp, heating up the incoming fresh air and fuel mixture, decreasing power and economy, and potentially causing detonation are just a few issues.

reverse cooling really comes in handy here. you cool the head first, then the sleeves. this allows the coolant to pull the maximum amount of heat out of the head, again where the bulk of the heat is located, the sleeves don't require as much cooling capacity.

not to mention the OEM straight vane water pump has a flow and efficiency limit, it's flow is also directed related to the rpm of the engine. This is why you see a lot of high power cars running electric water pumps. you get a steady flow level or you can use an rpm/temp based controller to determine pump speed for maximum cooling based on load, reduce electrical load requirements, and extend the lifespan of the pump. they also allow for a reverse cooling system with minimal effort.

I am tossing the idea around of developing a CNCd billet aluminum curved vane water pump for b,d,f,h,k motors. the curved impeller is much more efficient than a straight vane pump, has a higher flow rate before cavitation starts, and has less mass which means reduced parasitic losses from turning the pump.

I'd machine a new billet flange to replace the OEM cast piece, machine a new drive pulley and shaft then hardcoat anodize it, install a quality ceramic ball bearing further reducing drag, and figure out an optimized rotor vane design for increased flow and efficiency (again anodized for increased service life and chemical/corrosion resistance while keeping the costs down so pretty much anyone could afford it.

I could also offer 2 versions... a more budget friendly "street" pump with a standard steel ball bearing, fewer coatings, possibly use an OEM water pump plate/flange and then offer a "race" pump with the ceramic bearing, billet flange, fully coated and so on. possibly even two different impeller designs for the two pumps since a street car and "race" car have different cooling system requirements

I just need to play around with impeller designs in solidworks and figure out how to keep the costs reasonable. but for now it's just an idea that I'll work on in my spare time.

 

Dude stop with the brick wall of random chat. Put that **** in the random chat thread.

 

I've seen this a few times with various sellers of Bosch EV14-style injectors. Not exactly what they advertise. Injectornation.com guarantees their injectors to a maximum of 1% static (wide-open aka full-flow) and 1% at a 2ms dynamic pulse (1-2ms is typical for idle with 1000cc injectors). Apparently they'll be offering "Black" sets that are less than 0.5% total spread, meaning +/- 0.25%.

Here's a vid I found of their injectors being used (skip the first 25 seconds):

 

Won't that be getting close to the price of an electric pump?

 

Dont you own this company? Seems off the way you talk about them in 3rd person if it is yourself your promoting

 

not really. not with the discount the machine shop I used to work at gets on materials. and the lathes have autobar feeders so technically the machines could run 24/7 unattended. plus they have tailstocks so theoretically I could machine each impeller and drive gear/shaft from start to finish on one machine.

the mounting plates would have to be done on the mill but our big Haas has such a big table I could probably machine at least 10-12 at a time.

also we are a high volume customer for an anodizing/coating company in toccoa so the coating costs would be very very minimal, especially since we already have parts no color hardcoated and black hardcoated so I could just toss them in with the other parts we coat.

 

If your 1000cc injectors are off 8% at 25% duty, that puts your individual cylinder AFR's off by up to 8% below 4500 RPM on your typical turbocharged 1.8L Honda engine. What's 8% variance if you target an 11.5:1 AFR? Say 3 spray out ~250cc at 25%, one sprays 230cc. The average AFR will be 11.5:1, but 3 cylinders could be at 11.3:1 while the lean cylinder would be at 12.2:1. In other words, one full point. Cars that need 1000cc injectors will already spool a bit slow, and this will only make it spool slower. Some cylinders will potentially start detonating while others will be making less power or their spark blown out from the extra fuel. Now that's at 25% duty, what's 2% duty and less look like??

Dynamic balance is very important.


I looked at the TOS, FI rules, HT rules, IB rules, and I'm not seeing any rules restricting me from talking tech about them, and even then I can't find the specific rules about what is considered promoting. H-T doesn't do a great job making the rules crystal clear. The Injector Nation website linked to has no product to purchase ATM, so I'll let the Mods decide and hopefully link me to any posted rules I may have brushed up against. I just figured I'd add some tech to the original topic and post a vid of a car making >700whp but still idling like a dream - while running eight 900cc injectors at the same time.

 

As long as it's tech talk I'll allow it. Carry on.

 

Date: 05-26-2014
Vehicle: 1988 CRX Si
Model: 280 155 xxx
Injector serial #: 1405261-1405264


Preliminary Test Results

Test pressure = 43.5 psi Injector No.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Test 1. Injector Resistance 12.1 12.1 12.1 12.1 0 0 0 0
Test 2. Leak Down Test (Pass / Fail) P P P P
Test 3. Spray Pattern (Good / Fair / Poor)
Test 4. 30 Second Pulsed Flow Delivery (mL) 90 93 90 84 0 0 0 0
Test 5. 100mL Pulsed Volume 97 100 98 90 0 0 0 0
Test 6. 60 Second Static Flow (mL) 902 924 911 896 0 0 0 0
Test 7. 100mL Static Flow 98.5 100 99 98 0 0 0 0

Test Results After Service

Test pressure = 43.5 psi Injector No.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Test 1. Leak Down Test (Pass / Fail) P P P P
Test 2. Spray Pattern (Good / Fair / Poor)
Test 3. 30 Second Pulsed Flow Delivery (mL) 91 96 93 88 0 0 0 0
Test 4. 100mL Pulsed Volume 95 100 97 92 0 0 0 0
Test 5. 60 Second Static Flow (mL) 905 939 924 924 0 0 0 0
Test 6. 100mL Static Flow 98 100 99 99 0 0 0 0



Comments

Tests performed at 0.755 specific gravity. Dynamic tests performed at 5000 rpm with 6.0ms pulse width. Injectors have been modified by Injector Dynamics. Part numbers have been removed.

 

I didnt say you were doing anything wrong, just odd the way you were wording your advertisement, recommending "their" injectors, "apparently they'll be offerring" .... when its your company your talking about

 

Are those serial numbers engraved on the flat spot just below the connector or laser-etched into the silver band/barrel?

 

as long as he isn't blatantly pushing his products, publicly posting prices, or mentioning specific products then I'm fine with it.

like muck said, as long as it's tech related I'll let it stay.

although it is a good excuse to become a forum sponsor/vendor

 

But its not shady to try and sound like a regular guy/customer that is recommending there product? He clearly is trying to come off like he isnt the owner, and is pushing the product. you try and say there is nothing on the site for sale, thats just because your site is broken, clearly says to email you to order.

"apparently they'll be offering" ?? You would know! Its you!

 

Regardless, 2 mods answered the question. I'm more interested in the sequential serial numbers, which is not a hallmark of I.D. injectors.

 

No question was asked, its simply weird how you tried to advertise as if you werent the owner of the company

 

The serial numbers were assigned by the test company I believe.