Have a 1992 Accord LX, MT, that is really baffling me. First a bit of background. I had an intermittent starting issue - would crank strongly, but at times would not start when cold. When warmed up it started fine and once started it always ran perfectly. After adjusting valves, replacing the main relay and hours scouring this site, I finally traced the problem to a bad ICM and replaced it. But in the process I removed the distributor. (Like some others, I found one of the screws holding the ICM was seized and needed to remove the whole distributor to get to it.) After getting everything back together, the car starts just fine now, but runs rough from idle to about 2K rpm. It is driveable, and seems to have decent power, but just runs rough. Seems rich, can smell the fuel. Again, before messing with the ICM and distributor, the car ran just fine, when it started.

So, I figured somehow the timing got off, but when I try to set it, the white timing mark moves around (even with the distributor still). And I can't even see the red timing mark. I've jumped the little blue plug under the passenger dash (forgot what that's called) while setting the timing. While I was at it, I looked for CEL codes, and all I got was a steady CEL, which I understand means there are no stored codes. Tried disconnecting the negative battery terminal to reset the ECU, to no avail. Nothing seems to work. I just can't figure out what would be different about removing and replacing the same distributor, except the timing.

At first I thought the distributor might be bad because there is a very small bit of play in the piece that goes into the engine. But upon further inspection, (I removed it again and re-examined everything closely - again) that play is along the pin that holds this piece on the distributor shaft and seems to be by design. The other end of the shaft, in the distributor itself, has no play at all. The shaft does not move smoothly but seems to catch at every tooth - I'm thinking that may the magnetic pickup, no? No oil in the distributor, but the o-ring into the engine was bad so I replaced it. I can't see anything about the distributor that would be causing the problem.

So now I'm not convinced it's the distributor, but something I'm doing wrong with the timing. I've read and reread timing instructions for this car, and I think I'm doing it correctly (it's not that hard, after all.) Again, the car ran fine until I pulled out the distributor to replace the ICU.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated. By the way, I'm brand new to this forum and this is my first post, I apologize in advance if I've committed any procedural fouls.

 

Two more thoughts. First, I got a smart idea and looked at a new distributor at the local OReilly's, and it has the same end play and catching as my old distributor. Now I'm really convincing myself it's not the distributor.

But could I have messed up something installing the ICM? I got the wiring right, even wrote it down before hand, is there anything else I could have screwed up?

 

After reading your post twice I have no idea what the issue is supposed to be.

In the title you say the timing mark jumps around, it's going to do that unless you jumper the blue service connector, which is how you set the base ignition timing. After you pull the jumper it will jump around based on what the ecu wants to do with the ignition timing.

 

holmesnmanny - Thanks for the quick reply. The problems are 1) the timing mark is jumping around even with the service connector jumpered and 2) the engine runs rough, at idle and at speed (2K RPM). My procedure was to simply jumper the service connector, start the car, then set the timing per standard procedures. Am I doing something wrong, or could the distributor be bad? I've replaced the main relay and ICU, and had the valves adjusted.

 

the service connector has two spot to jumper it ... make sure you put it in the metal slots not the plastic one ... when jumpered correctly the check engine light will come on and stay on .. use a paperclip and make sure its magnetic which = conducive

 

It did take a couple of tries to get the service connector jumped properly so the CEL stayed on. But it was on steadily when I adjusted the timing. Maybe I'm not getting a good enough connection? I used a heavy gauge electrical wire, I'll try again with a paper clip and make sure I'm doing it all correctly.

Here's another thought. When I first reinstalled the distributor, the rotor was in the same position but the distributor itself was off a bit from it's original position. When I started the car it ran roughly, so I tried to adjust the timing without jumping the service connector, which of course didn't work. Came back to this forum, found out I needed to jump the connector, so simply tried to time the car, this time with the service connector jumped. It seems to me this should have worked, but will it? Could trying to time the car without the service connector jumped mess up something in the ECU (or anything else) that needs to be reset?

 

Trying to set the timing with the ECU not jumped will allow the ECU to adjust the timing.
However, if the car is fully warmed up and at correct idle speed, the timing is not adjusted much. So if jumping the two wire blue service connector does not work this may be an alternative method. You can also adjust timing by ear. If the car is warm and the engine revs increase, you are increasing advance. If the engine slows down and begins to sputter/bog the timing is too far retarded.

 

It's actually possible to put the distributor shaft on 180 degrees out. Take it back off and look at the shaft. It's deliberately manufactured offset so that you can more or less put it on one way. You will see the shaft is offset to allow you to align it correctly when you insert it into the head. Check that again. If it's off the ecu won't be able to time it correctly. If you had to jam it into the head instead of it just going gently in then you know it's not in correctly.

Just use a paperclip.

 

Problem solved! The new ICU I installed was defective. I admit, I bought a cheapo on line, but it ended up being a pretty inexpensive diagnostic tool. In my mind, I kept coming back to the only change I had made was installing a new ICU, which solved my cold starting problem but the car ran rough. So I warmed up the car while the new ICU was still in it, then reinstalled the old ICU and the car runs like a top. Timing was a snap after that (actually just set it back to the original etched mark on the distributor, which was still right on the money).

Thanks all of you for your input, and sorry to have wasted your time with something so foolish.

 

If the old icu problem was that you had a cold starting problem and you went back to the old one, then it would make sense you still have a cold starting issue or no ?

It's not often an ignitor is bad out of the box even for a cheapo ebay model.

 

That would make sense, but I'm not sure. Problem is, the cold starting issue is more prevalent when the weather is cold and it's been pretty warm up here the last few days (50+ Seattle area) now it's starting OK. I know that's opposite what you usually find with ICU's, but somewhere (I think on this forum) I read where someone was having cold start problems and he was able to pin it down by throwing a rag over the distributor overnight to hold in the heat a bit. Sounds goofy, but he claims it lead him to the ICU and that solved his problems. His theory is that by simply cranking the engine, the current in the ICU warmed it up enough that it would eventually start. That is exactly the symptom I'm seeing - if you crank it long enough it will eventually start, the colder it is the longer it takes. But I don't want to burn out the starter, of course.

So I got my refund on my cheapo ICU and I'm going to try one from another source. Like you, I figured the downside of cheapos is that they aren't durable, not that they are bad out of the box.

The backstory on this car is that I'm the original owner, babied it through about 180K miles, then sold it to my daughter who neglected to maintain it for another 117K, for a total of 297K miles. (Ever seen plugs with 100K on them, worn down to the insulator? And still putting along, getting about 25mpg - unbelievable. They have since been replaced!) She someone willing to buy this one as is, as long as it is running. Like I said earlier, it runs great, should be good for another 20-30K with no major work (except a timing belt), but I gotta be able to start it reliably.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

drop in a bottle of Isoheet in the fuel tankand see if that helps...might be bestto drop in two bottles

it helps absorb water in the fuel system that may be freezing in sub 32 degree temps

 

Good idea - put in a bottle of Heet a few months back, will toss in another.