Can you run e85 in a normal stock engine that not "flex fuel"
Or does it have to be tuned to run in that.
This dude has a 820 HP 04 cobra running on e85 I'm thinking he should run 110 octane or 93 at the least.
I'm thinking maybe he had it tuned to run on that.

 

It must tuned on E85. Typically, when you have bigger injectors that can handle E85, you can make more power on it than on 93 octane gas.

 

Ethanol also eats fuel lines. Those also need to be updated. Even the 5-15% that is in "regular"gas in many areas does damage so everyone should inspect their rubber lines if they haven't already.

 

It requires 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equate to 1 gallon of gas. Ethanol will also wash your cylinders, and eat lines out as poster mentioned. Ethanol is an energy farce...

 

In my area Its cheaper than regular 87 I was just wondering if its okay to run.
The only downside is that it burns faster and it eats the line?

 

It is cheaper by how much? Like I mentioned, it takes 1.5 gallons of ethanol to equate to 1 gallon of gas. You might not be saving money in the long run. I retro'd and older vehicle and it was a pain, ended up not saving any $ on fuel. Plus it will wash your cylinder walls out and increase engine wear...

 

An energy farce? I don't think that word means what you think it means.

If properly tuned, it won't wash your cylinder walls. It is more detonation-resistant, which is why people use it on higher power applications. Tossing E85 in a car that isn't made for it is going to be a drastic form of tossing 93 in a car made for 87. Takes more "effort" to burn, so an unmodified, untuned motor will get less gas mileage out of the same amount of gas. I don't know exactly about the 1.5:1 thing, but you do need bigger injectors and more fuel for the same setup on E85. Yes, E85 can damage fuel lines, accelerate the deterioration of stock fuel filters, and do all sorts of other unpleasant things to a stock motor, but if you're running FI, have a fully and properly upgraded fuel system, and have a tuner who knows how to handle it, it's well worth it.

As for the guy you know with the Cobra, making 820BHP, he's obviously upgraded and tuned. Could he be making more power on race fuel? Yes, but race fuel is more expensive, less accessible, and E85 will be more affordable than race fuel.

 

e85 has many advantages and disadvantages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E85

if it were readily available here, i'd be using it.

 

IT WILL NOT EAT YOUR FUEL LINES, THIS IS A MYTH. Go ahead and google it.

 

What about this.
My dad has a 2001 raptor 660. Getting a big boar kit making it a 686. 102mm boar. And 12:1 compression with a cp piston. Engine has everything new. Its also 5v
Will e85run good in that?
Cause ik if he would of went 12.5:1 they said run straight racing gas (110-117).

 

Sure I do. FARCE: an empty or patently ridiculous act, proceeding, or situation

Media, etc. keep saying that ethanol is win, win, actually it is not. If it were not subsidized via the govt, it would be much more expensive. Not only that, but it is an energy deficit - takes more energy to grow, and maintain, process than what it produces.


http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy03osti/32206.pdf

"Other potential materials compatibility questions pertain to engine wear observed in E85 vehicles. In the GM Lumina, the cylinder bore showed wear problems, and the piston ring showed evidence of not sealing properly (Barnes 1999). Due to alcohol's superior cleansing ability, the “cylinder wall wash” has been documented in engines where high alcohol concentrations have been used. The “cylinder wall wash” is characterized by a loss of film, or oil, on the cylinder walls, thereby causing more friction (Livo 1999). Flex-fueled vehicles have therefore required a special lubricant.
However, few, if any incidents have been reported on 10% blends associated with “cylinder wall wash.” Impacts from higher ethanol blends should be further quantified, but would likely be more similar to impacts of E10, rather than of E85."

 

This is beyond the scope of this forum really. Talk to your tuner and see what he/she says about what fuel to run.

 

Fuel lines:



http://mn.gov/commerce/weights-and-m.../E20Report.pdf

"Ethanol contains acetic acid that can corrode aluminum alloys. It also adsorbs the lead in alloys causing the surface to become porous (5). Materials such as terne plate (lead/tincoated steel used in fuel tanks) zinc die castings, and aluminum fuel system components are attacked by alcohols and require corrosion inhibitors to minimize this effect.

Corrosion of steel is accelerated by the presence of alcohols in the fuel, partly because of the increased water content of the fuel. Corrosion occurs through different mechanisms including acidic attack, galvanic activity, and chemical interaction. The first is caused by water in the fuel (6). Ethanol attracts and dissolves water, creating a slightly acidic solution. Unlike gasoline, ethanol alone or combined with water conducts electricity; this conductivity creates a galvanic cell that causes exposed metals to corrode. Another mechanism is direct chemical interaction with ethanol molecules on certain metals.

Deterioration of materials would result in loss of function of critical engine components,
resulting in fuel leaks, fires from fuel leaks, and equipment failure
To ensure materials compatibility at higher ethanol levels for use with flexible fuel
vehicles (FFVs) manufacturers use corrosion resistant materials in any part that may
contact fuel. Manufacturers of small engine products such as chain saws and lawn
mowers, as well as older and antique vehicles recommend coating or anodizing
aluminum carburetors or substituting a different metal not susceptible to attack (13)."

 

Doesn't say what kind of car that is or even if it is a stock line. Many people with cars run stock fuel lines without issues. Older fuel lines like 30+ years ago may have issues.

 

For those in need of a Chemistry lesson, Acetic acid (or ethanoic acid) puts the "bite" and smell in vinegar...so its not as terrible as it may sound. If you want to get technical, soda has carboxylic acid due to the presence of carbon dioxide gas in suspension. This is why good beer (Guiness ) is made with nitrogen, as it doesn't react to cause acidic conditions.

True, the fuel is more corrosive than typical gasoline, but having said that, most newer fuel systems will handle it without issue. Further, the corrosive acetic acid comes about as a result of breakdown of the ethanol molecule...over time ethanol can lose a H+ ion in suspension causing the acidic conditions you mentioned. In my personal experience running e85 for ~2years, i never had any fuel leaks or problems related to e85; however, once i sold the car, the new owner parked it with e85 in the tank over the winter...next spring, he needed a new Walbro 255. So, it isn't without issue entirely, but most problems tend to be preventable.

I have heard of e85 pitting the aluminum in the head (caused by fuel being sprayed into the intake side) but haven't ever seen evidence of it

 

Guiness FTW....
Now for something actually pertinent to this thread, e85 is a very good option for those who can afford the requirements to run it, upgrading the entire fuel system, have a good tune etc etc, it's expensive but if you're looking for big hp #'s it will be more efficient and cheaper to run than race fuels.

 

These are the realities you rarely hear about from environmentalists.

Drought conditions in the plains states lead to small corn harvests this year. I heard a story on the radio about how farmers that rely on corn to feed their livestock were facing either shortages or much higher prices, or both. Do we really want energy costs and availability tied to weather events and cycles?

 

...and to add to that, do we really want our food supply tied to energy? Farmers have been growing ethanol based corns because it yields a higher price (subsidized by govt), over feed corns, and corns used in food products. However, as you mentioned, if the feed corn has been affected (or even consumer corn), and thus they cannot feed their stock, it drives up costs... from milk, to beef, etc... not only that, but when Monsanto get involved you are screwed...

 

Ethanol is a loss:

The energy content of 1.0 US gallon of ethanol is 76,100 BTU, compared to 114,100 BTU for gasoline.

 

I was thinking the same. Are we letting cattle and pig herds "thin out" because there's a goverment mandate on how much corn must go to Ethanol production?

 

That's why there is still 15% "gasoline" in E85 (as in 85% not octane). The mandate is now E10-15 for "regular" gasoline at least around here to make the tree-hugger and the agri-corp coalitions happy.

E85 isn't mandated around here. As a result there are all these flexfuel vehicles running around that people paid extra for that are just burning "regular" gas because there's no place to buy E85.

 

Looks like things may be changing...


http://www.ibtimes.com/less-ethanol-...stung-decision

"Here’s how it happened. Eight years ago a number of big corporate farmers and corn processors -- like Decatur, Ill.-based Archer Daniels Midland Company (NYSE:ADM), Sioux Falls, S.D.-based POET and Green Plains Renewable Energy, of Omaha, Neb. -- convinced Congress to pass the Energy Policy Act, which mandated that gasoline refiners use 4.7 billion gallons of ethanol and increase that amount annually to the nation’s total gasoline pool, which last year amounted to 134 billion gallons. The stated purpose was to reduce both greenhouse gas emissions and dependence on foreign oil. However, in reality, it meant a huge new market for corn-based ethanol, making agribusinesses that grow and process the commodity very happy.

But that wasn’t enough. In 2007 that same alliance compelled Congress to pass the Energy Independence and Security Act, which gave the EPA the authority to increase the amount of ethanol blended into gasoline to as much as 36 billion gallons annually by 2022.

As a result, every year since the measure was approved, the EPA has driven up ethanol requirements; today U.S. gasoline contains 10 percent ethanol, which this year will translate into an estimated 13.8 billion gallons of ethanol.

....

“Fuel production now takes up around 40 percent of the U.S. corn crop,” London-based Capital Economics wrote four days before the EPA announcement. "

 

However, E85 is still a loss:


Gasoline Gallon Equivalent
100%

1 gallon of diesel has 113% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline.

B100 has 103% of the energy in one gallon of gasoline or 93% of the energy of one gallon of diesel. B20 has 109% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline or 99% of the energy of one gallon of diesel.

1 gallon of propane has 73% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline.
5.66 pounds or 126.67 cu. ft. of CNG has 100% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline. [1]

1 gallon of LNG has 64% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline.

1 gallon of E85 has 73% to 83% of the energy of one gallon gasoline (variation due to ethanol content in E85). 1 gallon of E10 has 96.7% if the energy of one gallon of gasoline. [2]

1 gallon of methanol has 49% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline.

1 kg or 2.198 lbs. of H2 has 100% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline.

33.70 kWh has 100% of the energy of one gallon of gasoline.



http://www.afdc.energy.gov/fuels/fue...ison_chart.pdf

 

Dude we are talking e85 for very specialized cars here, not a fleet. This is becoming a thread for GDD.