So back in Nov. I put in a used tranny on my 91 ef sedan which my son drives. Before I put on the snows for the winter I took it to a local alignment shop I've been dealing with for years and I've never had a problem with them. They said the alignment was out, that's all they said, and did the alignment. Well when I pulled off the front snows a few months later they were shot, the inner ribs badly worn. I took it back to the shop and they put it on the machine and said the alignment was out, that's all they said again, and they did another no charge alignment. So a couple of months later I check out the front tires and they are shot, same condition. My son took it back to the shop last week and the original owner of the place checked it out this time (he's mostly retired, his son runs the place now) and he told my son the camber is out and to get adjustable ball joints and bring it back in. That was a $35 charge. So I have 2 issues here. Does it make sense that the camber would go out after installing the tranny, the tires were wearing fine before? I also replaced the rear mount. And shouldn't the shop have told me the camber was out at the first alignment so I could have maybe saved my tires?

So is it the upper adjustable ball joints he is talking about? I'm going to stop by the shop tomorrow and get more information, now that I've done a little research. There are more or less amounts of adjustment available for more or less amounts of money. It seems to me that whatever changed from swapping in the tranny should be able to be fixed by replacing whatever it is that is causing the problem. I don't want to put out $ until I feel certain it is going for the right part.

 

the toe being off is what wears the inside of the tires. not camber.

you probably have worn ball joints in the tie rod and loose steering. they should be able to diagnose this, but i really recommend you try another shop, since they just keep telling you to get a new alignment after changing out tires and charging you for needless parts.

you can diagnose the tie rods yourself by jacking the corner and shaking the wheel for play.

and its got nothing to do with the tranny.

 

It doesn't have anything to do with the tranny, however when you change out a tranny you do move around some of the suspension parts.
At the minimum, you have to remove a radius rod. You also have to disconnect the steering rods so the steering knuckles can swing out of the way for the axles to come out.
Put parts back together don't always line up right especially with old worn bushings.

I do question your shops. Their adjustable ball joint wasn't a great suggestion and it's very strange that you are finding wear on tires so quickly. They should be looking around closer for what might be causing the issue.

 

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...3sh401_b27.png
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/...3sh401_b29.png

Could you guys tell me which parts I should be looking at here. I did the tranny myself and I had a major problem getting the radius rod back in place on the arm. (Is the arm what you are calling the tie rod?) It seems strange though that both tires are wearing equally, and I mean wearing. I agree it looks like the definition of toe in wear to me when I see pics showing toe in wear. So I should look for worn bushings on both sides? I need to get the car over here, don't see my son much these days, he's apparently moved out but most of his stuff is still here!

 

you need to get the shop to adjust the radius rod, that could mess up toe.

tie rods are the ones on the top left of the pic.

 

Now if this is true that makes so much sense. I didn't replace the nut on the end of the rod when I did this and I was concerned about how to adjust the length of the rod if you will. Since the shop didn't mention this and I asked about it too, the primary reason I thought I should get an alignment if fact, I dismissed it. But I was thinking that the alignment would compensate for how the rod was set, not that the rod length needed adjusting. Maybe I should take it to the dreaded dealership? How would I know if a shop would be familiar with this? The shop I used specialty is van and truck fleets.

 

The radius rod is #5. Is that what you are talking about?
The nut on the end gets tightened down to a specific torque.
It does not change the length of the rod at all.

 

https://honda-tech.com/forums/showth...2720679&page=2

I was just reading thru this old thread and it reminded me of just what was involved with this radius rod deal. I'll have to check that I have the bushings on correctly, I was fairly flustered at times doing the tranny. Also replacing the rear tranny/engine mount was an ordeal. The subframe needed to be dropped to get to the nuts on it, that I'm sure shifted things around. But once everything was back together, I thought an alignment would make it all good. But no.

 

oh boy...

the nut at the end of the radius rod #21 gets bottomed out by the sleeve #10 once you tighten it completely. its not adjustable. (not unless you add shims, which you shouldnt have to.)

dont take your car to the dealership. its likely no one at the dealership has been around long enough to deal with the age of our cars.

find the local honda-acura specialist.

have them diagnose any issues. and recommend a new alignment shop.

(a fleet van and truck specialist??? wtf...)

 

Yeah I'm kinda out in the sticks here, not too much to choose from. I'll have to ask around. I have this posted over at BITOG also, and there is discussion there of how dropping the subframe could be a cause of concern if it wasn't put back in place exactly as it was. I did drop it when I replaced the rear mount, so maybe that is causing issues. I don't remember having a way to check the alignment of the frame but I do remember it being squirrelly getting the bolts to thread in place.

 

the subframe is not going to be out of its original place by much.

its not a concern.

 

wait... so it was #5 that you undid? if so, then yea, you should be okay. was thinking #19

and tyson you sure it's not a problem? doesn't take much to change toe.

or am i over thinking?

 

When putting the car back together I first did the sub-frame and then the radius rod. It was difficult getting the two bolts on the rod to align with the mounting holes on the control arm, correct angle etc. First I am now going to check that the radius rod bushings look like they weren't swapped, I marked them and kept them in original positions but stranger things have happened when I work on my cars, and check that I tightened the locking nut properly. So with the radius rod installed, if I now were to loosen the mounting bolts on the sub-frame, would it shift position slightly and maybe help get things back closer to original? I don't want to remove them, just loosen them up. Would this do anything? I'm thinking that dropping the sub-frame had something to do with why the radius rod didn't want to align properly.

I will also check the control arm bushings and the connecting rod bushings. My son works at a Meineke and I'm going to have him check the alignment if he gets some time. I haven't found another shop yet.

 

The radius rod bolts on the control arm are always a bit of a pain to start to thread in.

You're focusing at the wrong area.

 

Alright thanks Tyson I'll check the bushings and go from there. So do you think that the shop never had my alignment correct, I never get a printout from them but I've never in the past felt that they didn't do a good job, or that something is moving and so the alignment goes out? So they've now had the car on the machine three times, the first two the alignment was out and they supposedly aligned it, the third time they are telling me the camber needs adjusting.

 

when did i mention bushings?

 

Tie rods and ball joints, tie rods and ball joints, the old guy doesn't know his tie rod from a ball joint. And loose steering. And find a new shop. Got it.

 

I think you took my comment a bit further than I intended.
I was suggesting that when you take suspension pieces apart and move them around that they don't always go back together in the same position as before.
Some parts make more a difference than others. Old worn bushings -if you have any - can move enough to give different readings every time you get on an alignment machine if they are if horrid condition. You would know it by looking at them.