Honda Accord (1990 - 2002) Includes 1997 - 1999 Acura CL

ROH conversion, but five lug worth it?

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Old Aug 23, 2013 | 10:11 PM
  #1  
NZXTInerTia's Avatar
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Default ROH conversion, but five lug worth it?

Curious to get some input on the subject considering the Accord forum has been mostly help this help that lately. Get a conversation going.

If you follow my build log you'll know that my 94 CD7 is basically parked for the rest of the year due to a massive list of maintenance that needs to be done. One of the major things on my list are brakes rotors/pads specific.

I would love to convert to ROH and a five lug hub solely due to the fact that I will be making ~500whp in my next motor (Boosted/built F23A1). There are a wide selection of five lug wheels even of OEM varieties but not so much in the less common 4x114.3 that most of us share. Considering the power I'm expecting to make and the stopping power that is absolutely a safety requirement would a five lug conversion even be worth my time? I know it would sure make my life easier as far as wheel selection goes, and I do not plan to sell the car in any circumstance so part confusion wouldn't be of any worry. Regardless the brakes will be done with new updated stopping power along with a full ABS modulator delete/4040 prop valve.

I pulled this off of AccordTuner forums, so I give credit to whoever wrote it up.

Front setup
1. Knuckle
> 95-98 Honda Odyssey
> 98-02 Honda Accord V6 (only the ones branded S5 on the splash guard)
> 97-01 Honda Prelude (**must drill larger hole for balljoint**)
2. Caliper
> 94-97 Honda Accord Wagon
> 92-96 Honda Prelude vtec (H22)
> 97-01 Honda Prelude
> 92-95 Acura Legend L/LS coupe (dual piston)
> 94-95 Acura Legend GS sedan (dual piston)
> 97-01 Acura Integra type R
> 91 Acura NSX (dual piston)
3. Caliper bracket
> 23T (single piston Legends, Integra type r, 92-95 Prelude)
> 25T (Accords)
4. Pads
> Obviously whichever caliper you choose from
5. Rotors (or any other rotors with same specs, I cross-referenced other accords/crv’s on brembo/autozone that match same part numbers too)
> 95-98 Honda Odyssey
> 98-02 Honda Accord V6
> 97-01 Honda Prelude base
> 97-01 Acura Integra type R
> 94-97 Honda Accord wagon

Rear setup
1. Hub/bearing assembly
> 97-01 Honda Prelude
2. Calipers
> 94-97 Honda Accord EX
3. Rotors
> 98-02 Honda Accord V6
> 02-06 Acura RSX
4. Pads
> 94-97 Honda Accord EX


An Odyssey knuckle, Wagon caliper, Wagon bracket, Wagon drilled/slotted (I know the whole deal with gas, etc). Then for the rear drilled/slotted with Accord pads. Said setup keeps everything completely normal and wouldn't (to my knowledge and research) have to be modified at all.
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Old Aug 24, 2013 | 12:37 AM
  #2  
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Default Re: ROH conversion, but five lug worth it?

Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
Considering the power I'm expecting to make and the stopping power that is absolutely a safety requirement would a five lug conversion even be worth my time?
Yes for a few reasons.
1. The extra lug will provide a more even clamp load with the wheel/rotor interface.
2. With the power, and track time, you plan on having the more common BP will afford you not only wheel choices, but if you decide to go to a larger rotor it is a more common pattern. Cheap 13" rotors are available for 94-04 Cobra Mustangs that use the same 5 lug 114.3mm BP, and IIRC the height is only 5mm difference so possibilities are endless.
94-04 Cobra Mustang rotor

$29.79 from Rock Auto.
3. The ROH will allow easier rotor replacement or dedicated rotor/pads for the track.
Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
I pulled this off of AccordTuner forums, so I give credit to whoever wrote it up.

[B]Front setup
1. Knuckle
> 95-98 Honda Odyssey
> 98-02 Honda Accord V6 (only the ones branded S5 on the splash guard)
> 97-01 Honda Prelude (**must drill larger hole for balljoint**)
This is kinda, well, crap.
You do not need to replace your knuckle. Although there are slight differences between the three it is an added expense you will not need.
Unless you want to have a knuckle setup for an easy replacement then by all means just get another pair of 94-97 knuckles and build them up.
If you can score some Ody knuckles, they have a different part number, it may be interesting to see if they are slightly beefier than the ROTM Accord.
Although I see 92-96 Prelude not mentioned most likely due to the larger stub axle, but the '97-'01 is but needs to be reamed? Goofy.

Stick with Ody/Accord knuckles for simplicity.
Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
2. Caliper
> 94-97 Honda Accord Wagon
> 97-01 Acura Integra type R
> 92-96 Honda Prelude vtec (H22)
> 97-01 Honda Prelude
Stock 57mm single piston = 2551.758 mm²
These are the same calipers/cages, but IIRC the later Lude SH model has something different with the caliper cage, but can interchange.

Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
> 92-95 Acura Legend L/LS coupe (dual piston)
> 94-95 Acura Legend GS sedan (dual piston)
> 91 Acura NSX (dual piston)
Legend uses 43/38mm pistons = 2586.316 mm²
NSX uses 40/36mm pistons = 2274.513 mm²

Increasing rotor size increases front bias, increasing piston area increases front bias.

Rotor diameter/ caliper piston diameter.

Accord- 260mm/57mm + 260mm/34mm (4 lug HOR)
'97 CLI4- 260mm/57mm + 260mm/34mm (4 lug ROH)
'97 CLV6- 282mm/57mm + 260mm/34mm (4 lug ROH)
Wagon- 282mm/57mm + 260mm/38mm (4 lug HOR)
'95 Ody- 282mm/57mm + 282mm/38mm (5 lug ROH)
'96 Lude- 282mm/57mm + 260mm/34mm (4 lug ROH)

'98 Lude- 282mm/57mm + 260mm/34mm (5 lug ROH)

*I'll add 2.3/30 CL and 2.3/3.0 Accord later + register bores*

Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
3. Caliper bracket
> 23T (single piston Legends, Integra type r, 92-95 Prelude)
> 25T (Accords)
If you are going to pull parts/order calipers. Get the caliper/cage together. I don't see any advantage to the swapping of cages. Unless you can use the Wagon/Prelude/ITR cage on your current caliper then that would place the caliper in the correct spot for the 282mm rotor. Save you the cost of a caliper, unless you want dual pistons.
Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
4. Pads
> Obviously whichever caliper you choose from
Yeop, you will have to play around with compounds to get you to that

stage.
Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
5. Rotors (or any other rotors with same specs, I cross-referenced other accords/crv’s on brembo/autozone that match same part numbers too)
> 95-98 Honda Odyssey
> 98-02 Honda Accord V6
> 97-01 Honda Prelude base
> 97-01 Acura Integra type R
> 94-97 Honda Accord wagon
Hubs will dictate rotor. I didn't think all of the ROHs have the same register bore. I want to say the later V6 Accords use a different size from Ody.
Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
Rear setup
1. Hub/bearing assembly
> 97-01 Honda Prelude
2. Calipers
> 94-97 Honda Accord EX
3. Rotors
> 98-02 Honda Accord V6
> 02-06 Acura RSX
4. Pads
> 94-97 Honda Accord EX
Sounds right. Rear Ody hub has the wrong offset.
Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
An Odyssey knuckle, Wagon caliper, Wagon bracket,
If you find a wagon in the yard, or an Ody, just grab the whole assembly.
Ody will give you the 5 lug, wagon will give you the larger brakes but maintain your 4 lug for now.
Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
Wagon drilled/slotted (I know the whole deal with gas, etc). Then for the rear drilled/slotted
Off gassing was an issue back in the day with asbestos compounds and the like. Drilled rotors are for bling. Reduction of mass from the rotor(holes) reduces its thermal capacity. You want that rotor to be as large of a heat sink so to absorb and dissipate the heat. This will prevent the calipers from cooking/fading and the fluid from boiling/pedal to floor(no brakes) scenarios.
Stick with a nice solid rotor if you can, slotted is fine too. Larger rotors allow for later/longer/more braking.

For now, if you don't want to mess with purchasing wheels, you can install the Wagon calipers and rotors to upgrade to the larger 282mm rotors. Save up for the Lude 5 lug rear hubs, rear accord rotors, CL 2.3 hubs CL3.0 rotors or Ody gear, for the 5 lug.
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Old Aug 24, 2013 | 01:04 AM
  #3  
NZXTInerTia's Avatar
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Default Re: ROH conversion, but five lug worth it?

So essentially I could just get an entire knuckle, bearing, hub, bracket, caliper, etc. assembly from an Odyssey and be done in the front. Hell, that sounds a LOT better than grabbing different random *** parts. Would the entire rear assembly from an odyssey work as well? By drilled and slotted I meant slotted, I as well have heard from multiple people that they don't perform as well as a solid rotor would.
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Old Aug 24, 2013 | 02:23 AM
  #4  
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Default Re: ROH conversion, but five lug worth it?

Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
So essentially I could just get an entire knuckle, bearing, hub, bracket, caliper, etc. assembly from an Odyssey and be done in the front. Hell, that sounds a LOT better than grabbing different random *** parts.
The only thing is I am not quite sure about the front stub axle interface.
I know the Accord and Ody use a similar looking front wheel bearing, but they carry different part numbers.
I would like to think that being the Ody is a van that it is just a larger bearing for the higher load capacity. This would bode well for you as you will be abusing the **** out of that front end with 500HP

Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
Would the entire rear assembly from an odyssey work as well?
Nope, totally different rear suspension. That and the 282mm rear rotors would be MASSIVE for use on the back of a coupe. It also employs a Volvo type divorced parking brake drum, I don't even know where you would start to look for proper rear cables.

98 Lude rear hub and 98 Accord V6 rear rotor would seem to be the simple ticket.
Although I do not know why the '98 Lude and '98 Accord V6 hubs are different. Possibly a different spindle size?

Originally Posted by NZXTInerTia
I meant slotted, I as well have heard from multiple people that they don't perform as well as a solid rotor would.
Slotted is fine.
Originally Posted by Centric
StopTech Slotted Sport Rotors
StopTech Sport Rotors are premium quality replacement brake rotors that feature a signature "short slot" design. The slot improves brake system performance by wiping away the debris of used friction material that otherwise accumulates between the rotor and pad. This keeps fresh pad material exposed to the rotor surface and helps prevent pad glazing. The edges sweeping the pad slightly increase the effective coefficient of friction or "bite," amplifying brake system response to pedal input. By providing an escape path for water, slotted rotors can also improve initial brake response under wet conditions.
The other nice thing is you can tell when its time to get new rotors, the slots start to disappear.
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Old Aug 26, 2013 | 12:16 AM
  #5  
NZXTInerTia's Avatar
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Default Re: ROH conversion, but five lug worth it?

I can understand how the axle would be of concern. Maybe I could get a custom CV set made. Considering five is a heck of a lot of torque to be burdened by an OEM spec CV. Regardless, if I could find the whole kibosh from an odyssey and just get the hub/bearing assembly I would need that would be completely worth it. At least for the front that is.

Regardless I'll be getting new wheels to handle the larger rotors, my buddy may be getting a set of wheels for his 99 BB6 so I may end up getting his blades in trade my 5spd LX tranny (upgrading to an H22 LSD). Larger wheel equals a larger rotor I could ultimately run, not to mention a nice fancy two/four pot I could jam in there. My girlfriends LX needs tires, so I'll be transferring my current alloys to her car.

I have about seven months to do this, so I will more than likely be able to acquire most of those parts by then. Not to mention as an aesethetic value let alone performance slotted rotors, larger calipers (painted black of course) and larger wheels will take the cake as far as OEM looks go.
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Old Aug 26, 2013 | 06:45 AM
  #6  
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Default Re: ROH conversion, but five lug worth it?

Note that the bearings for the front knuckles for the Odyssey are larger than those for the 4 cyl Accord. And that the Odyssey hubs are 70.12 mm in diameter and the Accords and Acura TL's are 64.15 which means that using the Odyssey hubs will limit your choice of rotors. But the 2002 Acura RL does use the 70 mm hub and has a rotor that is 300 mm in diameter and 28 mm thick. The earlier RL's are 282 and 23 mm thick. So if you use the Odyssey hubs "think" Acura RL.

If you should decide to go 300 mm, then you will need the caliper bracket from the RL. It will work with the Legend calipers or the NSX calipers (or any of the others for that matter).

The easy way to more rear braking is to use station wagon calipers or (easier to find) use the one from a 98 or earlier Acura TL (not the RL). They are the same as the wagon, and many times the wagon calipers you find at salvage yards have been replaced with the smaller sedan ones because that's all the mechanic could find at the local parts store that afternoon.
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Old Aug 26, 2013 | 06:32 PM
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NZXTInerTia's Avatar
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Default Re: ROH conversion, but five lug worth it?

So maybe I'll end up going with a V6 Accord hub to keep things simple. Hell, in the end I may just end up getting some high tensile studs and new OEM Accord bearings/hubs and upgrade my rotors with larger calipers. I have awhile to decide, and definitely to sort out parts.
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Old Aug 27, 2013 | 05:01 AM
  #8  
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Default Re: ROH conversion, but five lug worth it?

Let me add one more thing about the Odyssey hubs. The hubs are stepped down in size from the area on which the rotor seats. It is 70.12 mm. Then it steps down to 64.15 where the wheel seats so that any 64.15 mm Honda wheel with a 5x114.3 bolt pattern will fit on the hub. So no concerns about wheels, just the rotors. And with the rotors available for the Odyssey or the Acura RL, no real concerns there either.
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