some used m3's are around 20,000 and i was debating which would be a more fun to drive car. Please post your experience/thought about them against eachother. Also if there was a bone stock ITR and the m3, probably an OBD-1, on the track, which one do you think would win? lets say the track didnt have to long of a straightaway...

 

More fun? ITR

Luxery? M3

 

stock for stock the m3 is faster....modded its anybodys guess. on the track.....would depend on drivers skill, I'd say the ITR has the handling and better brakes, while the M has power.......


rob- wants to roll an m3.

 

prices on parts for any BMW are through the roof. even the beloved ITR isn't THAT expensive to maintain. ITR

John

 

good point.....on maintenance stuff though.....aftermarket for both is comparable.


except for forced induction. Boosting a bmw is ludacrisly expensive.....


[Modified by Rob :190:, 1:06 AM 10/25/2002]

 

Exactly

 

and insurance on a ITR is ludacrisly expensive too

 

hehe with my record.....a geo would cost an arm and a leg to insure


i never got any quotes for the M3 insurance back when i was car shopping, I dont know how much cheaper it would be though....

 

I've driven both on the same track on the same day.. Mine, a 2000 ITR, I drove harder since it was mine, and the M3 was a friends. I drove it much easier since it would be really stupid to put 27K car that you don't own into the tire wall. My friend was 2 to 3 seconds faster per lap than me on VIR's South course. He is probably a slightly better driver than me.

Neither car sucks thats for sure. And both are a blast to drive. I think the M3 would be slightly harder to drive at it's full potential, but that may be because I'm used to driving FWD.

All things being equal the M3 should be a bit faster than the ITR in my opinion. It isn't a huge difference probably 1 or 2 seconds a lap? Maybe a really twisty track would give the ITR an edge?? but I feel that the M3 has the handling to keep up even in that situation.

If costs are a issue, it seems to me that the following rules apply ownership costs for these cars.
It costs about 1.5 times the normal price to buy parts that have an R on them.
It costs about 2.0 times the normal price to buy parts that have an M on them, this is in addition to the already higher price of the BMW parts.

As always YRMV.

Shawn

 

great info shawn!

 

agreed. at gingerman, i passed some m3's and got passed by some. they seemed to pull on me in the straights but i could brake later and keep more speed through turn. ...we were all n00bs so who really knows

 

yeah i noticed, have you been following the 95 M3 in European Car? That thing is incredible.

 

I think the m3 has better brakes.

 

i say the m3 feels more comfortable.....


i heard someone say that a type r is a poor man's m3.......

 

"It costs about 1.5 times the normal price to buy parts that have an R on them.
It costs about 2.0 times the normal price to buy parts that have an M on them, this is in addition to the already higher price of the BMW parts. "

If you are referencing OEM Type R parts or even aftermarket parts "R" parts are the same if not cheaper than non "R" parts. Many parts are also interchangeable along the Integra line so all the more reason to buy an ITR.

 

Euro spec E36 M3

This guy around my area has a theft recovery E36 with the eruo spec motor/tranny/ecu. 6-spd, that I *think* ran a 13.7 stock. And it definately handles great. Never been in it, but from what I hear, it is awesome.

I was however looking at some E30's back before I picked up the R motor and those things handle like they are on rails. I test drove 2, both completely stock (if you call them stock) and they seemed like excellent cars to drive. I can only imagine the E36's being better.

 

Someone that never drove an R

 

e36's are quick. driven one with bilstein shocks and eibach springs, dinan chip and exhaust, intake.. and victor racers. VERY quick and would murder my car around the track...

 

I had a lot of fun with it when my friend picked this one up for $17k
It civilized and powerful and of course can't beat FR torque feeling. I do miss R's Rawness and lightness.
Anyway, can't go wrong if u can find a good buy.

 

I don't know until I race one......

 

Yeah, but its close.
Motor Trend said the 00 ITR did 60-0 braking in 114feet
I saw on the net a E36 60-0 is 112feet

 

Hows reliability on M3s? Can they go a few hundred thousand miles?

 

M3 is probably the better daily driver (less likely to be stolen, less likely to be vandalized, cruise control, quieter)

ITR is a more exciting car to drive near the limit IMHO.

Both are very satisfying to drive in their own ways. More unknowledgeable older people will be impressed by the M3. More unknowledgeable younger people will be impressed by the ITR. More people will try to street race you with th ITR.

If I only had one car I would buy the BMW. But with another car as daily driver I would prefer the ITR

 

I've never driven an ITR, but did own a slightly modded 98 GS(all suspension).

The M3 has a wonderfully torquey powerband that makes daily driving such a breeze. No worries about being caught in the wrong gear when you just want to scoot past a car. 5th gear is awesome, since the engine usually sits right around its torque peak while cruising, just a blip of the throttle and seemingly instantly 10-15mph more speed. Stock the M3 is slightly faster in a straight line, but once you mod, the hat goes off to the ITR. It's fairly easy to get an ITR running mid 13's, but takes some effort(and more money) in an E36 M3. Yet going in a straight line is not what these cars are about...

Handling is a toss up in my opinion. The M3 has better weight distribution, but more of it to haul around. The ITR has a very "involved" suspension, but it suffers from FWD maladies at times.

Once you get out on a track, it'd be very difficult to say, but I think I'd have to give it to the M3. Simply due to the fact that I don't think it'd be that hard to shed 300+lbs from the car to get it into "track shape", while an ITR is going to become really hard to drop more than 100-120lbs.

For parts, I'd say the M3 is slightly more expensive, but not grossly so. An NSX is WAY WAY more expensive to maintain. Regular BMW parts aren't all that crazy either, and some of the M parts are pretty reasonable as well. Of course, stealer parts departments tend to stick it to you whenever possible no matter what emblem is on the hood.

I think the M3 and ITR are very close in their mission, but go about it in a completely different manner. The ITR is more hard edged, while the M3 has comfort a little bit higher on the list.

You can tell which one I choose.

 

stock brakes have a problem with warping at the track until replaced with the euro units.....at least to the best of my knowledge.