Hi Guys-

So I am trying to do a Headgasket on my 1994 Accord EX F22B1 because of overheating issues.

Long story short, I am unable to pull the head and do Headgasket because of '1' Damn bolt

I am drilling on the bolt right now with a Milwaukee drill bit and used engine motor oil as a cutting oil.

I am kind stuck now, not sure how to completely remove the head of the bolt, so I can pull the head?

Please have a look on the pictures and advice, I am kinda stump now. Because if I try to drill by using 9/16', it's not removing anything and seem like bolt head is not budging

Thanks in advance for all of your help and advice.

 

try posting a clearer picture of the bolt head

 

Please have a look on the new attached pictures.

Please advice, it's driving me NUTS!!!!

 

Your best bet is probably to use some kind of chisel to cut off the head of the bolt. Once the head is removed you can grab the bolt with some sort of plyers and remove it since nothing will be holding it down.

You're going to want to leave a piece of the head of the bolt so you have something to grab.

 

Why doesn't he use one of those grabby sockets? Possibly try to use Jb weld in combination with the socket and let it sit overnight and then try it.

This and some JB weld. Just an idea I had, it might do the trick,





I don't know if my idea will work you can try it, but here's some more ideas if that doesn't work,

https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/completely-stripped-head-bolt-2426999/

 

That's not going to work anymore. He's way past that.

 

Okay then why doesn't he just use these?

 

It looks like he's already beeing tryin to use those.

 

When I say chisel, I mean air chisel.

 

If you don't have access to an air chisel or electric welder to tack on a new head bolt (as per Ghost's excellent suggestion to your question in: https://honda-tech.com/forums/honda-accord-1990-2002-2/how-replace-headgasket-f22b2-2335661/) you need to drill deeper into the bolt as per the original suggestions in that thread.

As per Ghost's other excellent suggestion in the very same thread: To increase your chance of success, start with a smaller drill bit than the one you are using. Once you've got some penetration into the shaft of the bolt (def. well bellow the bottom of the hex bolt head), increase the drill bit sizes until you've got most of the material out. Starting small and progressively increasing the size of the bit will help you get the bit deeper into the bolt as smaller bits are more efficient cutters, and by increasing the size of the bit gradually you will scavenge drilled material more effectively. Once you have most of the material out, you can use an ordinary cold chisel to collapse the little bit of the head that remains into the drilled out annulus in the center of the bolt, releasing its grip on the head.

And lastly, my recommendations about quality tools in the other thread still apply - one of the other posters in the other thread suggested carbide bits - if after following the graduated bit technique described above you're still having issues, you've been at this particular problem long enough that a bit of extra cake to solve your problem is warranted, no?

 

Use a large enough machine tool drill bit to drill the head off the headbolt entirely... that will release any tension on it and allow you to pull the head off, leaving just the shaft of the headbolt sticking out of the deck of the block. There should not be a whole lot of tension holding the shaft that will be left in the block unless its seized you should be able to grab it with a large set of channel locks and turn it out.

 

First of all thanks so much to all who chimed in for the suggestion.

My response below for all the feedback and comments.

1-I don't have any air tools and a welder , but as advised by Ghost and Dan, it jut clicked my mind what they are trying to say now, I was under the impression to start with a small bit for making a hole in the bolt then get bigger, but I think what they meant is drill deeper and past the shaft into the bolt with a small bit and then go bigger in terms of drill bit, correct?

2-JB weld is not going to work because it's really hard to crack these bolts and I am way past that phase to use a bolt extractor, though before drilling I have tried Irwin, craftsman and Lisle brand extractors with no luck

3- "twkdCD595" could you please suggest a size and a picture of machine tool drill bit?

4- If I use chisel and hammer hard on the head of the bolt, am I going damage the head/block or no?

'DanInOttawa' I am way LONG in this problem and ready to add more cherry and icing, along with a BIG cake to get out of the problem lol

Thanks again guys, really appreciate all the tips and help, looking forward for twkdCD595 suggestion and advice.

 

YES, that's it! Drill deeper (not past the shaft, you want to drill into the shaft, past the bolt head.) The idea is to create a hole in the center of the bolt that you can collapse bolt material into with a chisel (see my response to your question 4 below). You don't want to go too deep, as you're going to need some solid part of the bolt shaft to grab onto to get the rest of the bolt out of the block once you've gotten the head off, but you've got the entire thickness of the head to play with. Go a half inch to an inch below where the head of the bolt ends and you'll have enough removed to get the bolt head off, and still have enough to grip the shaft of the bolt to get it out of the block later.

By 'machine tool' drill bit, he's referring to a quality, machine shop grade drill bit. Not one from Home Depot. He's referring to a bit large enough to take out the entire head of the bolt in one shot. This will also work, but be careful not to go past the hex head of the bolt into the head. It may also be difficult to control a large bit like this with only a hand drill. A large, high quality bit like this is going to be expensive.

If you remove enough material from the interior of the bolt, you won't have to hit it hard at all, you're just folding wafer thin material into a hole. Think a doughnut when you're done drilling: the hole in the middle you've just drilled, and the remaining bolt material is the ring. The thinner the pastry in the doughnut, the easier it will be to cavitate (push) it into the hole in the middle of the doughnut with a tap on the chisel.

 

This is where I get confused, when you say not past the shaft and into the shaft too?

I am sorry forgive my ignorance, drill past the shaft with a small bit(pilot hole), then increase the size of the bit and hole will also get bigger, eventually the head will fall off, is it correct or no?

 

Your original question asked:

I think it's just a terminology problem: the shaft is the long part of the bolt (that has the threads that are in the block). At the top of the shaft is the head, the hex part that is stripped and giving you all the grief. Think of a 'T', where the shaft is the leg of the T, and head is the horizontal part. When you said "past the shaft into the bolt" I just wanted to make sure that you went past the head of the bolt, into the shaft, as your photos show a hole in the bolt that is nowhere near deep enough. You can't go past the shaft, you're drilling into it, so there's nothing to go past.

I'm not sure if you're referring to the bolt head or the cylinder head. In any case, once you've got the hole deep enough into the shaft, and large enough (think of the hole in the doughnut analogy from my last post), you still have to do a bit of work. This is the part where you have to tap the remaining material from the bolt head (the material on the outside of the hole you've just drilled) into the hole you've just drilled. You've drilled the hole to weaken the bolt material enough to do this.

Then your cylinder head will be free.

 

DanInOttawa is correct, 'machine tool' is a generic way to say you need something very high quality that would be used in a professional machining or tooling application.

Those head bolts are hardened bolt and are very difficult to drill but not impossible. A carbide or cobalt high speed professional grade drill bit will be your best option to drill on such a bolt. A standard steel drill bit may work for a short time but will dull very very quickly.

A head bolt is 12mm thick shaft I believe which would be about .47". So 1/2" bit should put you just larger than the shaft. Might go one step up to 9/16th's bit if you want to be sure it will take the head of the bolt off easily/ clean when you get down far enough.

Go slow and take your time. The idea is your drilling slightly larger than the diameter of the shaft but smaller the diameter of the head. As you drill down into the head you will eventually get deep enough you will drill the head of the bolt right off, relieving all the tension it is now holding. The cylinder head will pull up straight off the block and that remaining shaft stuck in the block. Once the cylinder head is off you will be left with whats remaining of the bolt sticking up and since it no longer has tension on it... it will turn it out of the block fairly easily with a set of large pliers/ vise grips/ channel locks/ etc.

 

Thanks so much guys for helping out a 'noob'.

Really appreciate it, have a look on my picture for the bolt, so I should start a small hole past the hex area into the shaft and then use a large bit to make the hole larger and make the head of bolt weak, right?

It's accord with stock bolts and they have a size of 14mm, so I should stick to 9/16 or something larger than that?

Any recommendation for any particular brand of bit? But not which is $50/bit

 

Yes, you are in the right area of the bolt.

Ok, to summarize, there are two possible approaches being presented here by myself and twkdCD595.

twkdCD595 approach:

1) You take a HIGH QUALITY, machine shop grade bit that is equal or just larger than the shaft diameter of the bolt (he thinks it's 12mm, but you have a bunch already out, just take one with you when buying the bit and match the size to the shaft (not the head of the bolt) or go just oversize. You do not want to go too big, or you will bite into the cylinder head material.
2)You center the bit in the middle of the shaft and drill until just below the mating surface of the hex head and the bolt shaft. The hex head of the bolt will have nothing to hold it to the bolt anymore, it will come off, and the cyl. head is free.

My approach:
1) Start with a small, HIGH QUALITY, bit to get below the attachment surface of the hex head (I would go beyond the point you have illustrated, the further down you go, the easier it will be to chisel the material in later).
2) Increase the bit size to the point where you can take a cold chisel and hit the remaining hex head material into the hole you have drilled to remove it. The head will be free.

Either approach will work, they are very similar, and you may end up using a combination of the two. Price out one bigger bit vs. a few smaller ones in graduated increments, that may make the decision for you. In terms of name brands, call a reputable auto/industrial/machine shop tool supplier in your area and tell them what your application is (drilling out a hardened cylinder head bolt) and see what they have. Or call a local machine shop and ask what they use and their supplier. Just don't go to Lowes or Home Depot, et al.....

 

There is nothing much which I can ask or say, except:

THANKS SO MUCH FOR AN AWESOME RESPONSE AND REPLY

I really appreciate all of your help and cooperation guys, let me take care of this Damn bolt

Will provide an update and keep you posted, I am sure will have many more questions after pulling the head

 

That sucks that this happened, what do you think went wrong, were they just old bolts? You're supposed to replace them after you use them once. Someone recommended using head studs on another thread after someone rounded off a bolt like you did, so you may want to get some. If not just get some standard head bolts.

A good set like these will do you good, its what I used. They even send you an OEM Honda bolt for the longer bolt cause that's not a standard bolt.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Victor-GS33407-Head-Bolt-Set-/330892439293?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1995%7CModel%3AAccord&hash=item4d0ab9eefd&vxp=mtr

 

Couple of things went wrong, so in steps:

1- I started with air Impact gun, had compressor for few days, not any more with me.

2- Tried using 12 pt(Big Mistake), instead of 6 pt, then tried hammering bolt extractor, then impact, bolt extractor, regular sockets, so finally bolt was completely round from the edges and top.
Lesson for Others:
Always use good 6 pt deep socket with a 1/2" Breaker bar and 4-5 feet long heavy steel cheater pipe. Get a helper, holding the socket on the bolt by pushing it downward, while other person is trying to break the bolt.

3- Started to drill and was COMPLETELY lost, upset and mad

4- Posted on HT, you guys chimed in and now feeling really comfortable tackling it

I will go and pull 10 bolts from pick n pull for ~$10 (or maybe less) and out of 15(Reuse mine 5), use 10 best ones.

My car is SOHC, I can re-use after lubing and cleaning them as long as they are in good shape. Studs are EXPENSIVE and I am not planning to keep the car for another 200k.

Victor Reinz bolts are much cheaper on RockAuto. I would rather buy a good set of Headgasket and other gaskets(Fel-Pro) instead of the bolts.

Feel free to comment if I am wrong or missed something?

 

Alright, one more thing, should I drill slowly or fast?

Because I started drilling slow and continued with slow speed, but seems like drill is not doing anything or drilling SUPER SLOW.

I am starting with a small bit and then go large with the passage of hole size to finally KILL it.

Please advise about the drilling speed, thanks

 

What kind of bit are you using?

 

I have tried using 'Irwin' brand, Cobalt one made for heavy metal.

Now bought 'Rigid' brand, made only for heavy metal from a Hardware store.

Please feel free to suggest any brand, I am really open for suggestions at this point

Honestly, this bolt is driving me NUTS

Please feel free to chime in with suggestions?

 

You need to heed the advice offered: call a local machine shop or industrial supply outlet and get a real bit meant for machine shop use - irwin, rigid, crafstman, and all other craptastic consumer brands are not going to cut it.

To get a bit that is going to work you need to go somewhere that does not stock toilet bowl cleaner in the same aisle as the tools you are buying.