With all of this talk of lift-off oversteer and other such actions which induce an off-track excursion, I was hoping that we could put together a FAQ for handling an ITR...

Although I understand most vehicle dynamics, I think that it would be beneficial to all those on this forum if we got some ITR-specific handling tips.

For example, we can answer some basic questions, and put to rest more complex misconcetions.

For starters:
<FONT COLOR="blue">What is your advise or explanation on how to correctly control a ITR? What techniques can be implemented in order to keep our cars under wraps? What do you do in various situations to correct for slids/understeer/oversteer?</FONT>

By explaining the handling dynamics of the cars we own, others, such as myself, may feel more confident in pushing their cars to the limit and just generally keeping away from the ______ (insert deadly object here).

 

Please keep in mind, I am not asking for advise on modifications which will help make the ITR handle better. I am merely truing to start a disscussion on how we as drivers can control the cars which we own. Afterall, not everyone wishes to put a $20,000 or more investment on the line in an attempt to figure out how to handle their car.

The experience of the board is a much better resource than my failed attempt at "trial and error"

 

"For example, we can answer some basic questions, and put to rest more complex misconcetions"

I understand the point of the post but would just like to state that the ITR is not the most difficult car to drive @ the limits, that is a misconception in itself. Most of the collisons and accidents that occur are driver error. Pushing the limits of the car on the street, not the cars fault.

I would bet it would be safe to say that for the majority of ITR owners the ITR was/is the first car they have ever autocrossed or tracked. Being front drive it is probable easier to drive and recover from a situation than most rear drive sports cars. Try driving a 911, s2000, ZO6 or any other rear drive car at its limits and see what happens, they like to spin also.

I guess my point is learn to drive the car before you blame the car

My 2cents
Mattj





[Modified by Dropspeed, 10:28 PM 10/23/2002]

 

That's a very difficult question to answer consistently. The bottom line is that each driver has a little differnt style and there are usually more than one way to get around a track quickly.

Car set-up also has a lot to do with how you control things at the limit.

Nothing can replace a good instructor and seat time....

 

That is exactly what I hoped this post would turn into. I hoped that ITR owners can learn to handle the car through the advise of the people on these boards. Never once did I say anything remotely close to blaming the ITR for accidents/collissions.

Hopefully this post can educate future, or less experienced than yourself, drivers in how to handle their cars and keep away from wrecks.

If this is infact a misconception and the car is that easy to handle on the limits, then can you please share with everyone your views on how to do this properly?

Alex - who hopes this thread doesnt turn into a flame war

 

I realize that it is a very broad and difficult subject to explain. But that is all it was intended to be:

A subject which could be disscussed to help less experienced drivers.

I did not mean to frame it as such a direct question.


[Modified by SOMEguyFROMoregon, 7:35 PM 10/23/2002]

 

thats a very difficult question to answer.......especially when you don't own a type R...hahhah

 

hows this..... don't try and take a 90 degree turn at 70 mph! it doesn't work.... you will slide into a curb and rip off both wheels on the driver side.... but you wont flip the car..... most cars would have flipped.

if you are used to a rwd watch it when turning and shifting hard.

that is my begginers help.

 

I think this about sums it up.

Every one of us has a different driving style. I tend to be a very aggresive driver on the track, my car is set up well and I have also added a 26mm rear bar to induce more oversteer. As the tail gets loose I apply more throttle. It comes down to getting to know the cars limits and reacting accordingly.

I have driving many vehicles on the track and an ITR is fairly easy to drive quickly. It comes down to being smooth, looking ahead and prepare accordingly. Again all things that will come with seat-time.

Don't get me wrong I have had my share of hair-raising experiance both on and off the track but I will be the first to admit I was pushing the limits.

Mattj


[Modified by Dropspeed, 10:53 PM 10/23/2002]

 

Make sure you break, then excel through the turns....Don't go into a turn to hot, then lift off the gas. My best advice would be to run a drivers school with some kind of organization Car Guys, BMW, Nasa, SCCA ex. Learn to drive the car, Auto X'ing also will help you learn the handling characteristics you are looking for. Once it happens to you, u will understand. My best advice, keep it on the floor!

 

Make sure your tires at at the proper pressures. I know this isn't a skill, but if you're use to handling your ITR at the limit with 35F33R and you get your tires rotated, or new tires, etc....

 

There are some general rules of thumb for driving any front wheel drive car, including an itr. Oversteer? Apply throttle and steering correction. Understeer? Breathe throttle. Etc. There are also some general rules of thumb for driving any car, front or rear drive, like looking ahead, driving smoothly, and yaw and slip angles.

However, there are no hard and fast rules because changing road conditions will affect how you should drive your car. You will get better answers if you ask specific questions. Even then, personal driving styles will lead to different answer to the same question.

 

D O N ' T - L I F T





[Modified by xjohnx, 11:37 PM 10/23/2002]

 

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_handling/handling.lasso

NUff said....next post please...

 

Don't shift during a turn.

 

I second that

 

More appropriately, don't lift at the wrong time, or if you do, be ready to correct.

Lift throttle is a useful tool at times, helping to get the car rotated.

As stated before, nothing will help you learn to handle your car better then seat time.

 

Let me begin with a little caveat: I'm still very much a newbie at this (3 HPDE's so far), so my opinions are not as informed as some. That being said, this is what I've learned so far:

Basic vehicle dynamics (e.g., lift throttle oversteer) apply equally to all vehicles.

Compared to my previous car, a 240sx (RWD, open differential), I've noticed the following major differences:

The R is the most stable, predictable car I've ever driven. Compared to it, the stock 240sx feels like a wallowing pig.

In the 240sx, getting on the throttle too much could cause either understeer or oversteer, depending on how close to the limit the rear tires are. If they're too close, getting on the throttle in the 240sx can induce wheelspin, which induces carspin . In the R, getting on the throttle always induces understeer.

The R can suffer from torque steer. I have not noticed this as a problem on a track, but maybe in autox (guess I'll find out in a couple weeks ).

 

I also agree that seat time is the best way to learn.

There is a lot of good info in this thread, except for this "advice":

These are not the words of someone with experience.

 

yup i learn my lession the hard way

 

Best way to learn and the best suggestion anyone can give you is to be in the driver's seat with an instructor.

I had NEVER taken my r to a track in its 18 months. I learned a ridiculous amount about my car and driving at MY limit on Sunday at Gingerman. I said 'my limit' because the car's limits are very unobtainable with my relatively limited skill level. I only spun once, from not warming up the tires after the car sat for about 2 hours, and I kept all 4 wheels on the track. My advice would be to drive within yourself and don't do anything too quickly (such as lifting off the throttle quickly while in a turn) unless you know what you are doing. I think you skills increase as your understanding of the car increases.

Like anything.... practice makes perfect! (or at least better, if not perfect)

 

I have a red bumper to match that one.

 

Baby likes gas.

 

I think Asspenny made a point......

 

good drivers steer with the throttle and not the wheel.