Ive been considering a k swap in my car instead of building a b series.
And looking through few dyno charts it seems like they are not that far apart in power numbers

When built similar specs for example a k20 and a 2 liter b series they seem to be very close.

Then theres people comparing apples to oranges k20 vs 1.8L b series

And people claiming that its more expensive to build b series etc.


Just want some unbiased answers from people that do this for a living.



If this was answered before can someone point me to a thread thats not 10 years old?

 

i think geometry is the biggest difference. bore spacing, deck height, etc. with bseries you are limited to about 2.3-4ish liters. you can start bigger than that with a k. money is probably the only reason people still build all motor bseries engines. don't care what they say, bseries is cheaper if you already have a bseries to begin with. i'm putting together a 85x95 bseries now using gsr block and b16 head. 280hp, 180 ft-lbs ish is the goal. stock block k can do that with some pistons, cams, and headwork.

 

The only time where you might have a point is when building 86mm stroke k20 engines vs bseries built engines. Both have a good shot at making around 240-270 whp

But when it comes to a stock OEM block with a stock OEM head with just cams and maybe a manifold and a header, kseries outperforms bseries by a long shot (250whp vs ? )

Same for a drag engine because kseries can carry more displacement cheaper.

Some example would be a stock k20z3 engine making 240-250whp dynojet.

Now, when you bring the H2B into the mix, its a different story.

But overall ,Bseries is missing out on the displacement, VTC and around 30 CFM on the head in stock form... Roller cams as well.

So with a built bseries head, a bigger stroke and good cams I am sure it can do better but I also need to remind you that HONDA dealer sells 99mm k24a cranks new for about $290 .

Also hondata kpro is cheaper now than before by $300 and there are a lot more things to buy when doing a kswap so there is no clear answer here. It really depends what you want to do and you budget.

What I have noticed is a lot of people doing kseries swaps buy parts that are not really needed but make the swap look better.

 

The real difference maker is the heads.. the K20 head just ..out performs the b series head, point blank.

 

Once you drive a K swapped car with that nice 6 speed gearbox you will wonder why you did not do a swap sooner.Only thing that stopped me doing it years ago was I had 30+ B series engine laying around I had collected over the years.

 

The initial price shock of a full k swap turns a lot of people away IMO. Unless you have a native k car like an rsx, 8th civic, etc.

Put equal money into both and the k will almost always come out on top.

 

I didnt want to start a war was just asking about it.

Money aside and transmission aside

A 2 liter k series vs a 2 liter gsr both have same deck height same displacement
Just a slightly different rod/stroke.
With everything else same (cams compression header intake etc)
How much difference in power and torque are we talking about?
6 speed is nice.
And the only reason i stay with b series is because thats what came with older hondas to keep it somewhat same generation. If i go k series i would probably get a car that came with it.

 

The K20 with VTC and gearing will make more torque than an equal B of 2lt size,the K is so much better as an overall design package and to be honest I would not use a K20 the K24 is just that much better and cheaper than the K20 its not funny.

 

What he said.

Open up a K and you'll pee in y0 pants. It's literally 1/2 of a F1 V8.

Nuff said, playa.

 

i must have got the wrong info then.
i always thought that you loose the vtc when you go with aftermarket adjustable camgears.

 

The K still really is just at the early stages of its development for the aftermarket industry as when you look at how many parts are around for them already and things are still being done and developed.The only other engine in Honda I would do as a swap is a H22 or H23 as a H2B setup.

 

i built my b series for wayy cheaper then a k series would have been. you just have to be patient and wait for the right oportunities. The motor i built is a b18 vtec.

 

Nikos will jump in about this one.

 

the only people using adjustable cam gears with k series are drag racers that spend 100% of the time at WOT, they're also the ones doing single lobe vtec killers. ditching vtc on a street car or a car meant for circuit racing isnt ideal. vtc has so many advantages.

 

You usually only get one for the exhaust side, since it doesn't have vtc

 

i see

but then when they build drag monsters i see very similar power numbers when you get closer to 300whp builds. theres the 4 piston b series that has similar numbers to a build that i just saw in K section.

 

and then you have a relatively mild stock bore/stroke k24 with good cams and bolt on's making the same numbers

 

lol just looked at that thread.
now sad b series gogo bye bye

 

b series still has it's place and wont be going anywhere anytime soon.

fastest turbo guys are b series
fastest all motor guys are k series

 

How is daily driving a built k24 any traction problems?

I wish someone would make a roller rocker and vtc gear for b series.
B series is a classic now.

 

in the process of building a k24 now since my motor took a dump. i'll let you know when i get it running. but the general consensus is 1st and 2nd are pretty useless.

roller rockers are available for b series. it just eliminates vtec at the same time. something like vtc would be pretty damn hard to engineer for it.

 

Raver, what kind of car do you have?

Do you drag race? On the track? Weekend racer? Auto x? Illegal racing? Road racer? Daily driver? Do you have a second car to drive around while you are working on "your" car? How about theft? Is it bad in your area? How much whp you want? etc etc

There are a lot of things to consider. Bseries is deff not dead and not going anywhere anytime soon. There are a few reasons for this.

 

K series is better in pretty much every way in stock form. But once you get in there and start modding the engine, adding cams, porting this and that, increasing the airflow in and out of the engine, I believe both B and K series of the same displacement will make comparable power...
If you could get a B to 2.4 liters with a friendly internal geometry, I think 200 WTQ is feasible!

Essentially a 2 liter engine is gonna eventually max out at XXX horsepower, whether its a B or K series. A 2 liter air pump can only pump so much air in naturally aspirated form.

Due to the larger displacement capabilities of the K series, it is probably the preferred engine for most of the serious all motor guys...
Who wouldn't love a 2.6 stroker K series that will roast the tires through 3rd?? And run 10's...And still be streetable and get decent mpg...With a 6 speed...



The K's roller rockers are a great improvement over the B's "old skool" valvetrain.
The variable intake cam timing also helps improve midrange torque, much like the GSR's dual runner intake manifold design. With the roller rockers to decrease internal friction, the timing chain for better camshaft control and less maintenance (IMO). It seems like timing chains are starting to become the norm nowadays.. Its just a better overall engine... Oh yeah, I think its smaller and lighter as well.

IDK if you've really noticed, but many if not all OEM manufacturers are using some sort of variable intake camshaft control. It works. Direct fuel injection is another great technology that more and more OEM companies are going to..Variable Camshaft control = better cylinder filling over more of the RPM range.

I'm not really familiar with K's but are their any dual runner/variable intake manifolds for K series yet?

K24's are the way to go like Nikos said...Soo much potential without a **** ton of aftermarket goodies.

Nikos- Do you still have that old video of you and your K24 hatch running an Evo on the highway? It was the one that showed your speedo doing a full 360 degrees and hitting the wrong side of the needle rest? I loved that video.

 

Del sol
I drive alot and i enjoy just driving around the town.
But would like to take the car to the track and drag race once in a while when theres an event at pacraceways.
I usually get everything ready for a swap and then only have downtime about 4-5 days.
I know b series is good.and see few badass builds. But it seems like its already easier to build power from k engine.

 

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post but I had a question. I've heard people tell me that K series motors aren't reliable.. Is that true?