Well it finally happened to me..

After being on the dyno for 3 hours, we dicided to start cleaning things up and getting ready to up the boost and see what she puts down, when all of a sudden you hear this crack noise, followed by a flying bolt out of the bay.. Luckily enough we turned it off right then! after that happened we looked around and noticed 3 bolts were missing out of my exhaust side and it was cracked. We did a leak down and compression test both came out just fine. we then changed it out with one of the cam gears they had at the shop, and it fired right up.. So lucky..

After reviewing the cam gear and hearing everyone's horror stories, the cams seem to be flawed looking at the bolts they use not going all the way thru the cam as well as the mounting surface... they took the surface away to add the con-caved look. after reading most of this from 00b18b(member here) i can really relate to what he said about them..

With that being said the car is fine but need new cam gears and am wondering what you guys recommend and I'm leaning to bisimoto, golden eagle, TODA, Or AEM what are your guys thoughts and opinions?

Really looking for something that isnt gonna slip and have the peace of mind knowing it wont slip in the future.

Thanks
Jason.

 

Have any pictures?

Out of curiosity what did you torque the screws to?

Out of the list you gave - TODA... the rest are more or less junk.

 

I do not have pics yet being that Im at college, and left my car back home. ill post hopefully in a few weeks what the damage was. Alright ill look into TODA and see what other people say.

If you want an idea look at this. this is pretty much what happened to me..https://honda-tech.com/forums/all-motor-naturally-aspirated-44/skunk2-pro-series-camgear-failure-2661164/ other then the fact he got his replaced and ive had mine over the 1yr warranty. i had mine torqued down to i believe 7ft pounds.. i had have to double check what it says on the paper that came with them.

 

Those should be torqued to about 41ft/lbs per the manual on the VTEC head, and an impact gun should not have been used for the bolts from the gear to the camshaft. The smaller adjutment bolts should be about 7-9ft/lbs on average.

I'm with N3V3R on this one. I've only used TODA RACING Gears on my builds. They're more expensive, but to me, its worth it. There are others too.

Good luck.

 

Yeah thanks shodan! yeah the cam gears themselfs were torqued down from the manual, and same with the 6 hex bolts(7ft/lbs) im just happy my motor is fine. eee. but yeah im leaning to TODA and they are spendy we'll see. thanks again.

 

My friend had a bdl gear on his b20/vtec do the same thing

 

no one does this but can you use stock cam gears on aftermarket cams? i know you can but no one does it just simply because you cant dial them in. the reason why i ask is because ive notice with gsc cams most of the builds i read here, most if not all of the people dial them in to zero. if thats the case wouldnt the stock be a better choice?

 

The OP hasn't stated if he has OEM camshaft or not, or if he's LS/VTEC in which they are required, etc. Need more information to determine that.

 

word word
i was just asking in general more less off topic but on this same topic

 

Weird...I know BDL uses ARP bolts. At some point they upgraded their bolts from 1/4" to 5/16". Maybe that's why? I was going to suggest BDL or Golden Eagle. I've never heard anyone refer to them as junk before.

What makes Toda so special, other than being JDM?

 

^^^ Same thing I'm wondering. I've never heard heard of any issues like this with other brand cam gears.

 

You are correct, but im using bigger cams(skunk2 pro series stage1) but im think im changing them out, with my rebuild and 3inch that i had made still to much back pressure. still getting some bigger cams tho so ill need to make sure they are degree'd.

 

Pro1s don't cause "backpressure" like you think. Unless you're running some blox or Neukin log manifold. Even then, that's not as likely.

 

i know its not the cams its the mani(greddy) thats why. and i still think the turbo(20g/18g) isnt gonna have enough to make them work with there full potential. but i gave it a run o well ill just get different ones.

 

*BUZZZZ* Wrong again, thank you for playing

Had those manifolds 13 years ago. That manifold is not a backpressure issue for even something over 55lbs/min. And a 20g is 44lbs/min while an 18g is 41lbs/min on the Garrett turbine housing and exhaust wheel.

Pro1s ON a Greddy Manifold with a small 18G, that's a different story altogether. but it wouldn't be from backpressure at the manifold, it would be at the turbine.

 

Really?! wow I thought that was my main cutback.. ive been told alot that my manifold is where ill choke out first other then the downpipe which is now 3". From my understanding i thought that was were my problem was. I mean i still knew my Turbo wasn't gonna do a great deal i just thought my mani would of been the bigger picture. thanks i didn't know that.

do you know have the flow ratings or know where the flow ratings are for the greddy mani by chance?

 

It was a random failure, bolts were still there but it either cracked around the keyway or where the bolts were, in a perfect circle.

I know plenty of people that run gears on stock cams because of the bling factor but on big aftermarket cams they are a basic necessity to the proper tuning of the car

 

No manifold has "flow ratings" unless it was from an outside independent facility, and even then it depends upon the turbine housing turbine exhaust wheel, boost level, etc. (from something over 15 years old in use) I've got DSM and Evolution guys on the same configuration, material and even larger turbo size.. No "backpressure issue" at about 400whp. After that, this is where the turbine exhaust housing, wheel, etc come into play for lower efficiency with that manifold.

Its the combination that can cause problems. Not just one item.

 

I figured that, I just thought, it was being more limited in the mani Im hoping that i can get a manifold and bigger turbo soon. I would really like to change my turbine.. to change it all up. I was just asking for the flow chart(I figured you had one or knew how to calculate it but realizing what turbine housing ect) you could figure that math. thanks Shodan

hmm..

 

Cam gears are nothing to play with. The cheaper (ebay) ones are found to have sharper edges due to the way they are made, i'm assuming the cheaply made ones dont have the edges shaved down like "real" gears do.

Also, I normally and only recommend Gears like Golden Eagle or Whitfield gears because they have the ARP bolts which are thicker and longer, and also their markets are far more accurate.. My two cents.

 

thats what im looking for something with ARP bolts. thanks for the input. yeah i got the skunk2 cam gears when i bought my cams. but they failed. so time for different ones.

 

Most with Skunk2 Gears replace the bolts to Grade 8, if they don't overtorque them. I've personally never seen them fail, but there's a first for everything that can be witnessed.

Toda Racing uses Grade 8 already, but going with Whitfield would be a nice choice as it already comes with the bolts you'd like for security.

Whole little description about them.

http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/t.../photo_02.html

 

Thanks shodan, and yeah ive just heard stories about these(skunk2) slipping alot due to the design on the back they only have a small amount to bite to, the link i posted earlier shows exactly what I'm talking about. I'm not sure if these are grade 8 bolts either..

I just called to double check because i do remember before i didn't see what the bolts were made out of. I just got off the phone with one of there representative and he said he doesn't know what they are made out of.. he said there "little steel allen bolt keys" he didn't know the grade of the bolts.. he said steel or aluminum. so idk. i never was able to figure it out.

 

Well, we just so happened to have a set come through the shop. It is the newer design with the gray box instead of the black box. I am not that good with cameras (back in my day we had drafting classes) and couldn't get the damn thing to focus correctly for the shots. With that being said if you look you can see the edges of the outside ring have been beveled, the bolts are plenty long enough without even crushing the split ring lock washer, the fasteners are some type of plated ferrous metal, and the hardware is stamped LH - 12.9 on the heads of the cap screws. Instructions still lacking, although it gives you an "Owners Kit" that holds a useless picture book of ricers and a 12 month "warranty" card.

 

Yeah mine seem to be smaller from what i remember(the bolts) not going all the way thru, I could be mistaken though but im pretty sure that's one of the things i noticed looking them over.