Hi, I am currently building a 2001 Civic Coupe with a sleeved B16 Turbo engine.
The plans are GTX3076, 400-450whp for tracking the car here in germany, more for racing on Autobahn.
I see that some people are using high-perf pumps such as Bosch, Pierburg inline with a stonger intank pump without a swirl pot.

Does that really work?
Even when I need a lot of fuel immediately? What about cornering and hard braking?

Thanks

 

What fuel will you be running? Get a Walbro 255 pump and call it a day.

 

a single 255 will be fine for 450whp.

 

A surge tank would be a good idea for track racing. I have fuel starvation problems under 1/3 tank during full acceleration. The stock fuel tank baffles are not great.

 

Agreed, a surge tank for road racing with that kind of power wouldn't be a bad idea at all.

 

I'll be running E85 and for sure an intank Walbro is not what I need.
I'll get a 2 pump setup for sure, the question is only about the swirl pot.

Thanks

 

Also consider the GTX3071 for that power level. It would be more responsive and still make your goal.

 

I concur. Especially for the B16. The GTX3071R would be a better match. Even for that power.

 

Yes, thanks.
I don't want to run max boos on the track and still have some beef for standing mile or Autobahn racing :-)
I'd be interested what a GTX3071 can do on a built B16.

 

How do would you want such a description? It can do what it was intended to do, which is lower end torque better matched with your smaller displacement of the B16 and still allow upper end power in a more linear powerband.

Its almost like asking... "how do you eat ravioli vs. other spaghetti or other pasta?".

Here's a video of descriptions and specifications of the GTX3071R and GTX3076R in relation to our smaller displacement engine platforms. They are a little indepth in English, but please don't be afraid to replay them as they both have pertinent information for you..

GTX3071R Description and Features


GTX3076R description and features

 

OK, will check that tomorrow.
Actually I have seen B16s with GT2871, GT3071 and GT3082 Turbos on our Dynojet and I know what those can do and when they spool.
What I don't know is how the GTX turbos behave with that engine.

At Subaru EJ25 engines we have not seen big differences between GT and GTX Turbos.

 

That's because Subarus have a VERY different exhaust flow stream. they don't like to rev or use exhaust energy very well. Never did, really. So that's an apples to grapes comparison.

If you want something nice and usable on a B16 for the road course, the GT3082 is the LAST turbo you wan to use. Stick with GT2871R GTX2867R, GT3071R or GTX3071R as usable options. No larger. the longer the courses, the more you want the GTX2867R and GT3071R.

Been doing this too long to go through EVERYTHING as to why, you're either going to give it a try or not.. not much i can do to convince on a web forum without you being in the car.. sorry.

 

An intank walbro 400 with upgraded feedline and stock feed as return should do the trick for you. And if your goals increase you could add an inline Bosch down the road but the 400 has been taken to upper 500s iirc.

 

Thanks for your input. I am thinking the same if it comes down to road course racing.

Let's get back to the initial question: I've seen many engines starving for fuel in long turns without swirl pots.
The question is not "will a Walbro support enough fuel for 500whp", it is "will the engine stay alive on the road course with proper tires, lsd and so on if I don't use a swirl pot?"

 

I'm still trying to understand another word for the term "swirl pot".. my apologies. but I CAN tell you that I've used a walboro 255 on over 25 events with scramble boost to over 500whp for a few years now. And I can say that as long as you have the high volume pump (Walboro 255 GS342) you'll be more than fine for the 500whp on the circuit. I wouldn't go too much above that (perhaps 600) without using some sort of boost-a-pump to keep voltage steady, but you'd have that problem anyway with any other fuel pump. In the U.S. anyway, we don't really use "swirl pots".. just the stock hangers and fuel tank.

 

surge tank?

 

http://www.obpltd.com/wordpress/?tag=swirl-pots

A swirl pot keeps you from sucking air through the intank pump when cornering hard with slick tires. Engines die because of wrong afrs because of fuel starvation.

 

That's what I figured.. but wanted to make sure.

Funny enough, again, I say no. For Hondas in Road racing series, we've never really needed one. A Baffled oil pan is MUCH more of a necessity than a surge tank from my experience. I've seen MANY more Honda engines die of Oil starvation moreso than any fuel starvation.

 

That's good to know.
A baffled oil pan is no question and a basic modification of course.
I will be running a Walbro intank feeding the 044. I was just thinking if to add a swirl pot (or fuel reservoir) for safety.
All my buddies (STIs, EVOs, Skylines) are using those.

 

They tend to need those. Not so much with the Honda series. But I also know I don't go under
1/4 tank of fuel , either when on the courses.

 

Yes, but with such a small tank and E85 and 450whp you are quickly at that point and don't want to stop the session because of the tank going under 1/4.

It's very good to hear that the Honda seems less problematic concerning fuel starvation.

I think I will just give it a try. Thanks

 

Well, that's still a matter of making sure you have correct fuel with you when you're at the circuit. whether it burns more or not, is up to the people that are there, not just some surge tank.

Good luck. Watch out for the hard left hand turns... those are the ones that oil starve on the OEM oil pans.

 

they'll fab anything these days

 

If you hardwire the walbro you shouldn't have any voltage issues, as long as the charging system is healthy the pump should see maximum voltage almost all the time

 

That's no question of voltage, what I am speaking about is an intank sucking air because of high g-force in corners.
When you are using sticky tires the fuel is pressed into one corner of the tank and the intank pump can't deliver the fuel you need.
That's why a swirl pot or sugra tank is used.
The intank pump only has to fill that tank with really low pressure and the tank is alsways full, even when cornering hard. The inline 044 will deliver the fuel with high and steady pressure to the fuel rail no matter if the g-force is because of acceleratin, braking or cornering.

Of course that's a racetrack-only issue.