So, I've got to a point in my welding of aluminum that I think I wanna try making a custom ic for my track car. I have never made 800whp, (only ever made it to just above 400whp) and always just modified existing coolers to fit better. But I was wondering if there was a
"sizing guide" a guy could go to? Say so many sq-in/hp? I just don't want to make the intercooler, and have it not be large enough to support the airflow I will need to make this kind of power and not have a million degree iat's. The turbo will be in a forward facing orientation, and will be directly connected to the ic hot side, as well as the cold side being backdoor. So I was wondering what size of a core should I start with. I was thinking about a 4"-5" thick core @ 16" wide, and 12" tall, to accommodate the space taken up with the turbo. Now, I was wondering what size intercooler core you guys were starting with, and what do you get with it?

 

This was taken from the Forced Induction FAQ and relates airflow (in cfm) to airspeed and resistance given a certain size pipe. If you know the turbo you're running or can approximate the airflow, this should give you some idea of the sizing you want. I believe this quote originally comes from the Corky Bell book, but i can't remember for sure

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> The velocities are in miles per hour and mach, and the flow rates are in cfm. Measurements for the piping are in inches.

Max airspeed 0.4 mach = 304 MPH

<u>2" piping</u>
1.57 x 2 = 3.14 sq in
300 cfm = 156 mph = 0.20 mach
400 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
500 cfm = 261 mph = 0.34 mach
585 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


<u>2.25" piping</u>
3.9740625 sq in = 1.98703125 x 2
300 cfm = 123 mph = 0.16 mach
400 cfm = 164 mph = 0.21 mach
500 cfm = 205 mph = 0.26 mach
600 cfm = 247 mph = 0.32 mach
700 cfm = 288 mph = 0.37 mach
740 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


<u>2.5" piping</u>
4.90625 sq in = 2.453125 x 2
300 cfm = 100 mph = 0.13 mach
400 cfm = 133 mph = 0.17 mach
500 cfm = 166 mph = 0.21 mach
600 cfm = 200 mph = 0.26 mach
700 cfm = 233 mph = 0.30 mach
800 cfm = 266 mph = 0.34 mach
900 cfm = 300 mph = 0.39 mach
913 cfm max = 304 mph = 0.40 mach


<u>2.75" piping</u>
5.9365625 sq in = 2.96828125 x 2
300 cfm = 82 mph = 0.10 mach
400 cfm = 110 mph = 0.14 mach
500 cfm = 137 mph = 0.17 mach
600 cfm = 165 mph = 0.21 mach
700 cfm = 192 mph = 0.25 mach
800 cfm = 220 mph = 0.28 mach
900 cfm = 248 mph = 0.32 mach
1000 cfm = 275 mph = 0.36 mach
1100 cfm max = 303 mph = 0.40 mach


<u>3.0" piping</u>
7.065 sq in = 3.5325 x 2
300 cfm = 69 mph = 0.09 mach
400 cfm = 92 mph = 0.12 mach
500 cfm = 115 mph = 0.15 mach
600 cfm = 138 mph = 0.18 mach
700 cfm = 162 mph = 0.21 mach
800 cfm = 185 mph = 0.24 mach
900 cfm = 208 mph = 0.27 mach
1000 cfm = 231 mph = 0.30 mach
1100 cfm = 254 cfm = 0.33 mach
1200 cfm = 277 mph = 0.36 mach
1300 cfm max= 301 mph = 0.39 mach</TD></TR></TABLE>

 

Typically a 975hp Garrett does the job at 24 X 12 X 3.5. Easily makes 900whp..

 

So this tells me when the piping becomes inefficient, but when does the IC become too small to cool the air? I see lots of stuff all over the net about "what size of piping?", but none on "what size core?". How does a company rate the "hp" of a certain core. The turbo used will be a Precision 7668H and flows @ 95lb/min or over 1300cfm. I know I need 3" piping, but how big should the IC be?

 

So, can I add an extra .5" to the width, and take a few off the height? I am thinking 24" might be a little to wide.

 

Probably not by much. The better Garrett's have that wide core for a reason. Going higher doesn't help as much as width

There aren't too many choices for the 800whp you're looking for. Cutting parts of the front bumper is just going to have to happen

 

im shooting for 700hp range what kind of rods should i use?? manley H beams or ESP h beams

 

You should start a new post.
This thread is regarding intercoolers and has nothing to do with rods.

 

I have the pte600whp intercooler and making 700+whp. No issues here.

 

So what are the IATs at the core? You may not think there aren't any issues, but do that again during the dyno next time. You'll see its starting to heat soak a bit.

 

But even if the intercooler is heat soaking a bit as long as intake temps dont rise would it still matter?

 

Intake temps will still go up. You can gain as much as 60whp with a more efficient intercooler. Ask LocoJoe and Californiadad. Even the turbocharger would be able to run 2-3psi more boost pressure with a more efficient IC setup.

 

If you're looking to make a super efficient intercooler with a relatively low pressure drop (at that pressure level) then you might want to look into a vertical flow core

 

Googled "verticle flow core intercooler", and couldn't find any for sale. The issue I have, is the turbo is front facing, and I want both sides to be backdoor. I was thinking maybe a thicker core, and a little less width(left t right wise). I have seen it done before. Are those set-ups inefficient, or are they using a "vertical flow core"?

 

Those vertical cores for your needs will be a bit difficult to fab endtanks for on your from facing setup. Let me recheck a couple measurements that would allow it to be a shorter width and higher or thicker Garrett core

 

Most hi hp setups like you run a Garrett 24x12x3.5 core.

 

Crap yea I didn't see the forward facing part.

You could make it work though. Fabbing the lower endtank (hotside) would be simple. The cold side might need some creativity though. But it would be an overall more efficient setup

 

Ok. I see what you mean by vertical flow. That may actually be a viable option! I could weld up an endtank that would work I think. I could do it like the center feed plenums for intake manifolds. Hmmmmmm. And Mac, any help with a qualified core would be VERY appreciated! As is the rest of the input here.

 

garrett makes a nice vertical flow core [pricey]

treadstone has also come out with some very nice vertical flow cores, i've had friends that used them and they had nothing but good things to say and they are affordable as well

 

Ill have to look into it. Thanks man! But Mac, I would still like to hear your ideas on core size as well.

 

What chassis abd is the front end stock, tubed. One piece front end or stock stuff?

Since it's a track car the core doesn't need to be too big because you're not doing any stop and go traffic or low speed driving. So you can run a smaller core because even though it will heatsoak by the end of the run you can cool it down in the paddock.

Does it have to be air to air? Front facing setups normally make air to water very easy and you'll see much more consistent and lower IATs and you could also build an ice box to get super low temps (an old school trick is to use dry ice in the box as opposed to typical cube ice)

Not trying to tell you what to run, just merely presenting another solution

 

The chassis is an ek coupe, and will have a JoJo Callos 3 PC front end this next year. It's an open bumper. I'd like to go a/a because its less maintenance. Don't have to worry about the pump going out, or lines leaking. Beyond that, the cores are expensive as it is, and the w/a cores are even more. I think I'll look into the vertical flow cores a bit more. Also Bell has a much mo diverse line up of cores to choose from. I like the idea of a 5" thick core, and make it 10"tall and 20" wide. Won't know for sure until the front end gets here though.

 

Yea that is true. A2w is expensive.

Bell IS the authority in intercoolers as far ss im concerned and they do top notch work. The thick core will be good because you can make the intercooler smaller in every other dimension and it will perform the same as a larger thinner core

Also endtank design plays a lot into intercooler flow and efficiency. So try to look at making centered inlet/outlet endtanks. A lot of guys use mandrel bends and cut them in half to make endtanks with nice smooth, rounded endtanks with no abrupt angles to cause flow issues.

 

Should be able to fit a 5" core, I have a 4.5" Garrett on my EK and it fits fine. Does have some modification to the front end though.

 

It seems that drag-race dedicated crowd do use a slight shorter core in terms of length. But its the efficiency of that core at the shorter lengths that are important. companies like Garrett, Bell, and Spearco have always been a bit more efficient in their designs than many others. Bell is a serious name that most people on H-T don't consider. 1) vendors for this market are few and far between, and 2) few people are willing to spend the proper money for it.

18 X 12 X 4.5 is about as short as it gets for 800+whp setups.